[for a brief explanation of this ongoing series, as well as a full table of contents, go here]
Before concluding this overview and inviting you to plunge into the main part of the book, let me briefly discuss some of the surprisingly few papers written by philosophers over the years that explicitly take up the question of progress in their field, as part of scholarship in so-called “metaphilosophy.” I have chosen three of these papers as representative of the (scant) available literature: Moody (1986), Dietrich (2011) and Chalmers (2015). [2] The first one claims that there is indeed progress in philosophy, though with important qualifications, the second one denies it (also with crucial caveats), and the third one takes an intermediate position.
Moody (1986) distinguishes among three conceptions of progress: what he calls Progress-1 takes place when there is a specifiable goal about which people can agree that it has been achieved, or what counts towards achieving it. If you are on a diet, for instance, and decide to lose ten pounds, you have a measurable specific goal, and you can be said to make progress insofar your weight goes down and approaches the specific target (and, of course, you can also measure your regress, should your weight go further up!). Progress-2 occurs when one cannot so clearly specify a goal to be reached, and yet an individual or an external observer can competently judge that progress (or regress) has occurred when comparing the situation a time t vs the situation at time t+1, even though the criteria by which to make that judgment are subjective. Moody suggests, for example, that a composer guided by an inner sense of when they are “getting it right” would be making this sort of progress while composing. Finally, Progress-3 is a hybrid animal, instantiated by situations where there are intermediate but not overarching goals. Interestingly, Moody says that mathematics makes Progress-3, insofar as there is no overall goal of mathematical scholarship, and yet mathematicians do set intermediate goals for themselves, and the achievement of these goals (like the proof of Fermat’s Last Theorem) are recognized as such by the mathematical community. (Moody says that science too makes Progress-3, although as we have discussed before, science actually does have an ultimate, specifiable goal: understanding and explaining the natural world. So I would rather be inclined to say that science makes Progress-1, within Moody’s scheme.)
Moody’s next step is to provisionally assume that philosophy is a type of inquiry, and then ask whether any of his three categories of progress apply to it. The first obstacle is that philosophy does not appear to have consensus-generating procedures such as those found in the natural sciences or in technological fields like engineering. So far so good for my own account given above, since I distinguish progress in the sciences from progress in other fields, particularly philosophy. Moody claims (1986, 37) that “the only thing that philosophers are likely to agree about with enthusiasm is the abysmal inadequacy of a particular theory.” While I think that is actually a bit too pessimistic (we will see that philosophers agree — as a plurality of opinions — on much more than they are normally given credit for), I do not share Moody’s pessimistic assessment of that observation: negative progress, i.e., the elimination of bad ideas, is progress nonetheless. Interestingly, Moody remarks (again, with pessimism that is not warranted in my mind) that in philosophy people talk about “issues” and of “positions,” not of the scientific equivalent “hypotheses” and “results.” I think that is because philosophy is not sufficiently akin to science for the latter terms to make sense within discussions of philosophical inquiry.
Moody soon concludes that philosophy does not make Progress-1 or Progress-3, because its history has not yielded a trail of solved problems. What about Progress-2? Here the discussion is interesting though somewhat marginal to my own project. Moody takes up the possibility that perhaps philosophy is not a type of inquiry after all, and analyzes in some detail two alternative conceptions: Wittgenstein’s (1965) idea of philosophy as “therapy” and Richard Rorty’s (1980) so-called “conversational model” of philosophy. As Moody (1986, 38) magisterially summarizes it: “Wittgenstein believed that philosophical problems are somehow spurious and that the activity of philosophy … should terminate with the withdrawal, or deconstruction, of philosophical questions.” On this view, then, there is progress, of sorts, in philosophy, but it is the sort of “terminus” brought about by committing seppuku. As Moody rather drily comments, while nobody can seriously claim that Wittgenstein’s ideas have not been taken seriously, it is equally undeniable that philosophy has largely gone forward pretty much as if the therapeutic approach had never been articulated. If a proposed account of the nature of philosophy has so blatantly been ignored by the relevant epistemic community, we can safely file it away for the purposes of this book.
Rorty’s starting point is what he took to be the (disputable, in my opinion) observation that philosophy has failed at its self-appointed task of analysis and criticism. Moody quotes him as saying (1986, 39): “The attempts of both analytic philosophers and phenomenologists to ‘ground’ this and ‘criticize’ that were shrugged off by those whose activities were purportedly being grounded and criticized.” Rorty arrived at this because of his rejection of what he sees as philosophy’s “hangover” from the 17th and 18th centuries, when philosophers were attempting to set their inquiry within a framework that allowed a priori truths to be discovered (think Descartes and Kant), even though David Hume had dealt that framework a fatal blow already in the 18th century.
While Moody finds much of Rorty’s analysis on target, I must confess that I don’t, even though it does have some value. For instance, the fact that other disciplines (like science) marched on while refusing to be grounded or criticized by philosophy is neither entirely true (lots of scientists have paid and still pay a significant amount of attention to philosophy of science, for instance) nor should it necessarily be taken as the ultimate test of the value of philosophy even if true: creationists and climate change denialists, after all, shrug off any criticism of their positions, but that doesn’t make such criticism invalid, or futile for that matter (since others are responding to it). Yet, there is something to be said for thinking of philosophy as a “conversation” more than an inquiry, as Rorty did. The problem is that this and other dichotomies presented to us by Rorty are, as Moody himself comments, false: “we do not have to choose between ‘saying something,’ itself a rather empty notion that manages to say virtually nothing, and inquiring, or between ‘conversing’ and ‘interacting with nonhuman reality.’” Indeed we don’t.
But what account, then, can we turn to in order to make sense of progress in philosophy, according to Moody? I recommend the interested reader check Moody’s discussion of Robert Nozick’s (1981) “explanational model” of philosophy, as well as of John Kekes’ (1980) “perennial problems” approach, but my own treatment here will jump to Nicholas Rescher (1978) and the concept of “aporetic clusters,” which is one path that supports the conclusion — according to Moody — that philosophy does make progress, and it is a type-2 progress. Rescher thinks that it is unrealistic to expect consensus in philosophy, and yet does not see this as a problem, but rather as a natural outcome of the nature of philosophical inquiry (1986, 44): “in philosophy, supportive argumentation is never alternative-precluding. Thus the fact that a good case can be made out for giving one particular answer to a philosophical question is never considered as constituting a valid reason for denying that an equally good case can be produced for some other incompatible answers to this question.”
In fact, Rescher thinks that philosophers come up with “families” of alternative solutions to any given philosophical problem, which he labels aporetic clusters. [3] According to this view, some philosophical accounts are eliminated, while others are retained and refined. The keepers become philosophical classics, like “virtue ethics,” “utilitarianism” or “Kantian deontology” in ethics, or “constructive empiricism” and “structural realism” in philosophy of science. Rescher’s view is not at all incompatible with my idea of philosophy as evoking (to use the terminology introduced earlier), and then exploring and refining, peaks in conceptual landscapes. As Moody (1986, 45) aptly summarizes it: “that there are ‘aporetic clusters’ is evidence of a kind of progress. That the necrology of failed arguments is so long is further evidence.”
A very different take on all of this is what we get from the second paper I have selected to get our feet wet for our exploration of progress in philosophy and allied disciplines, the provocatively titled “There is no progress in philosophy,” by Eric Dietrich. The author does not mince words (to be sure, a professional hazard in philosophy, to which I am not immune myself), even going so far as diagnosing people who disagree with his contention that philosophy does not make progress with a mental disability, which he labels “anosognosia” “[a] condition where the affected person denies there is any problem.” I guess the reader should be warned that, apparently, I do suffer from anosognosia.
Dietrich begins by arguing that philosophy is in a relevant sense like science. Specifically, he draws a parallel between strong disagreements among philosophers on, say, utilitarianism vs deontology in ethics, with similarly strong, and lost lasting, disagreements among scientists about issues like group selection in evolutionary biology, or quantum mechanics during the early part of the 20th century. But, Dietrich then adds, philosophy is also relevantly dissimilar from science: scientific disagreements eventually get resolved and the enterprise lurches forward (every physicist nowadays accepts quantum mechanics, having abandoned Einstein’s famous skepticism about it — though this hasn’t happened yet for group selection, it must be pointed out). Philosophical disagreements, instead, have been more or less the same for 3000 years. Conclusion: philosophy does not make progress, it just “stays current,” meaning that it updates its discussions with the times (e.g., today we debate ethical questions surrounding gay rights, not those concerning slavery, as the latter is irrelevant, at the least in many parts of the world).
Dietrich acknowledges that modern philosophy contains many new notions, and lists a number of them (e.g., supervenience, possible worlds, and modal logic). But immediately dismisses the suggestion that these may represent advances in philosophical discourse as “lame.” His evidence is that there is no widespread agreement about any of these notions, so their introductions cannot possibly be seen as advances. It follows that those philosophers who insist in defending their field in this fashion are affected by the above mentioned mental condition.
The reader will have already seen that Dietrich’s point is actually well countered by the preceding discussion, and particularly the explanation put forth by Rescher for why we see aporetic clusters of positions in philosophy. I will develop my own rejection of Dietrich’s sweeping conclusion in terms of non-teleonomic progress instantiated as exploration and refinement of a series of conceptual spaces throughout much of this book. And I will present (empirical!) evidence that philosophers are more in agreement on a wide range of issues than Dietrich and others acknowledge, though the agreement is about the viability of different positions within a given aporetic cluster, not about a single “winning” theory — which makes sense once we conceptualize philosophy in the manner introduced above and to be developed in the following chapters.
But even simply considering Dietrich’s own examples, it is hard to see where exactly he gets the idea that there is overwhelming disagreement: I don’t know of logicians who differ on the validity of modal logic, though of course they will deploy it differently in pursuit of their own specific goals. Nor do I know of anyone who disagrees on the concepts of supervenience or possible worlds, though people do reasonably disagree on what such concepts entail vis-a-vis a number of specific philosophical questions. Dietrich makes his argument in part by way of a thought experiment in which he brings Aristotle back to life and has him attend a couple of college courses: he imagines the Greek finding himself astonished and bewildered in a class on basic physics, but very much at ease in a class in logic or metaphysics (all three subjects, of course, on which Aristotle had a great deal to write, 23 centuries ago). My own intuition, however, is a bit different (we will come back to the use and misuse of intuitions and thought experiments in philosophy). While I agree that Aristotle wouldn’t know what to make of quantum mechanics and general relativity, he would have a lot of catching up to do in order to understand modern logics (plural, as there is an ample variety of them), and even in metaphysics he would have to take at least a remedial course before jumping in with both feet (not to mention that he wouldn’t know what the name of the discipline refers to, since it was adopted after his death).
Dietrich then moves on to introduce another mental illness, apparently affecting a much smaller number of philosophers: nosognosia, a condition under which the patient knows that there is something wrong, but still has some trouble fully accepting the implications. He discusses two such philosophers: Thomas Nagel (1986) and Colin McGinn (1993). Both Nagel and McGinn conclude that philosophical problems are intractable, and, hence, that there is no such thing as philosophical progress. However, they arrive at this conclusion by different routes. For Nagel this is because of an irreconcilable conflict between first (subjective) and third (objective) person accounts. While science deals with the latter, philosophy has to tackle both, and this creates contradictions that cannot be overcome. Here is Dietrich’s summary of Nagel’s view (2011, 339):
“There are three points of view. From the subjective view, we get one set of answers to philosophy questions, and from the objective view, we get another, usually contradictory, set, and from a third view, from which one can see the answers of both the subjective and objective views, one can see that the subjective and objective answers are equally valid and equally true. Therefore, philosophy problems are intractable. Philosophy cannot progress because it cannot solve them.”
McGinn, instead, says that there are answers to philosophical problems, but these — for some mysterious reason — are beyond human reach. Again, Dietrich’s summary (2011, 339):
“There are two relevant points of view. From one, the human view, philosophy problems are intractable. From the other, the alien view, philosophy problems are tractable (perhaps even trivial). The situation here is exactly like the situation with dogs and [the] English [language]. We easily understand it. Dogs understand only a tiny number of words, and seem to know nothing of combinatorial syntax. Therefore, though it is unlikely we can solve any philosophy problems, they are not inherently intractable.”
Briefly, I think both Nagel and McGinn are seriously mistaken — and I believe most philosophers agree, as testified by the straightforward observation that few seem to have stopped philosophizing as a result of considering these (well known) arguments.
Nagel has made a similar claim about the incompatibility of first and third person descriptions before, specifically in philosophy of mind (indeed, we will shortly discuss his classic paper on what it is like to be a bat). But that alleged incompatibility is more simply seen as two different types of descriptions of certain phenomena, descriptions that do not have to be incompatible, and yet that are not reducible to each other. Briefly, the fact that I feel pain (first person, subjective description) and that a neuroscientist will say that my C-fibers have fired (third person, objective description) are both true statements; they are compatible (indeed, I feel pain because my C-fibers are firing, as demonstrated by the fact that if I chemically inhibit that neurological mechanism I thereby cease to feel pain); and they are best understood, respectively, as an experience vs an explanation. But experiences don’t (have to) contradict explanations, assuming that the latter are at the least approximately true. A fortiori, I would like to see a good example of a philosophical problem that necessarily leads to incompatible treatments when tackled from either perspective. I do not think such a thing exists.
McGinn’s position is, quite simply, empty. While the analogy between the advanced understanding of an alien race vs our own primitive capacities and the similar difference between how dogs and humans understand English may seem compelling, there is no independent reason to think that philosophical problems are intractable by the human mind. Indeed, they have been tackled over the course of centuries, and we will see that progress has been made (once we understand “progress” in the way sketched above and to be further unpacked throughout the book). Interestingly, McGinn too, like Nagel before him, applies his approach to philosophy of mind, where he claims that the problem of consciousness cannot be resolved because we are just not smart enough. This “mysterian” position, as it is known, may be correct for all I know, but it doesn’t seem to lead us anywhere.
Similarly, where does Dietrich’s contemptuous rejection of the very idea of philosophical progress lead him? Nowhere, as far as I can see. He concludes by quoting Wittgenstein from the Tractatus: “My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands me finally recognizes them as senseless, when he has climbed out through them, on them, over them. (He must so to speak throw away the ladder, after he has climbed up on it.) What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence.” And yet, again, philosophy has persisted in existing as a field (I would be so bold as say, in moving forward!) despite Wittgenstein, and I greatly suspect will do much the same despite Dietrich’s cynicism.
A few comments now on Chalmer’s (2015) contribution to the question of progress, or lack thereof, in philosophy. He stakes a reasonable intermediate position, acknowledging that philosophy clearly has made progress, but asking why it hasn’t achieved more. He arrives at the first conclusion by a number of ways, including noting the incontrovertible fact that, for instance, the works of highly notable philosophers like Plato, Aristotle, Hume, Kant, Frege, Russell, Kripke, and Lewis have clearly been progressive with respect to the thinkers that preceded them, no matter what one’s conception of “progress” happens to be. Chalmers goes on to briefly discuss a number of way in which philosophy has, in fact, made progress: there has been convergence on some of the big questions (e.g., most professional philosophers are atheists and physicalists about mind), as well as some of the smaller ones (e.g., knowledge is not simply justified true belief, conditional probabilities are not probabilities of conditionals).
Still, maintains Chalmers, the progress that philosophy has made is slow and small in comparison to that of the natural (but not, he argues, the social) sciences. He discusses some possible explanations for this difference between philosophy and science, including: “disciplinary speciation,” the fact that new disciplines spin off philosophy precisely when they do begin to make sustained progress, like physics, psychology, economics, linguistics, and so on; “anti-realism,” the idea that certain areas of philosophy do not converge on truth because there is no such truth to be found (e.g., moral philosophy); “verbal disputes,” the Wittgensteinian point that at the least some debates in philosophy are more about using language at cross-purposes than about substantive differences (e.g., free will); “greater distance from the data,” meaning that for some reasons philosophy operates nearer the periphery of Quine’s famous web of beliefs (more on this in the next chapters); “sociological explanations,” where some positions become dominant, or recede in the background, because of the influence of individual philosophers within a given generation (e.g., the unpopularity of the analytic-synthetic distinction during Quine’s active academic career); “psychological explanations,” in the sense that individual philosophers may be more or less prone to endorse certain positions as a result of their character and other psychological traits; and “evolutionary explanations,” the contention that perhaps our naturally evolved minds are smart enough to pose philosophical questions but not to answer them.
Chalmers’ conclusion is that there may be some degree of truth to all seven explanations, but that they do not provide the full picture, in part because some of them apply to other fields as well: it’s not like natural scientists don’t have their own sociological and psychological quirks to deal with, and we may not be smart enough to settle philosophical questions, but we do seem smart enough to develop quantum mechanics and to solve Fermat’s Last Theorem. I think he is mostly on target, but I also think that the missing part of the explanation in his analysis derives from a crucial assumption that he made and that I will reject throughout this book: philosophy is simply not in the same sort of business as the natural sciences, so any talk of direct comparison in terms of progress and truths at the least partially misses the point. Right at the beginning of his paper Chalmers states: “The measure of progress I will use is collective convergence to the truth. The benchmark I will use is comparison to the hard sciences.” This is precisely what I will not do here, though it will take a bit to articulate and defend why.
A final parting note, in the spirit of Introductions as reading keys to one’s book. Friends and reviewers have of course commented on what you are about to read. Some of them found me too critical of, say, the continental approach to philosophy. Others, predictably, found me not critical enough. Some people thought parts of the book are too difficult for a generally educated reader (true), while other people thought some parts would be too obvious to a professional philosopher (also true). This was by design: I am writing with multiple audiences in mind, and I never believed one has to get one hundred percent of the references or arguments in a book in order to enjoy or learn from it (try to read the above quoted Wittgenstein that way and see how far you get, even as a professional philosopher — and there are much more blatant examples available). And of course the complaint has reasonably been raised that I don’t go into the proper degree of depth on a number of important technical issues in philosophy of science, of mathematics, of logic, and of philosophy itself (i.e., in meta-philosophy). Again, true. But what you are about to read is not meant as, nor could it possibly be, either an encyclopedia on philosophical thought or a set of simultaneous original contributions to many of the sub-specialties and specific issues I touch on. Rather, the goal is to pull together, the best I can, what a number of excellent thinkers have said on a variety of issues, connecting them into an overarching narrative that can provide a preliminary, organic stab at the question at the core of the book: does philosophy make progress, and if so, in which sense? I hope that that is justification enough for what you are about to read. And I am confident that better thinkers than I will soon make further progress down this road.
There are, of course, a number of people to whom I am grateful, either for reading drafts of this book (in toto or in part), or for having influenced what I am trying to do here as a result of our discussions. Among these are some of my colleagues at the City University of New York’s Graduate Center, particularly Graham Priest (for discussions about the nature of logic), Jesse Prinz (for discussions about the nature of everything, but particularly science), and Peter Godfrey-Smith (on the nature of science and specifically biology). Leonard Finkleman is one of those who have read the book in its entirety, an effort for which I will be forever grateful. Thanks also to Dan Tippens for specific comments on two chapters (on progress in mathematics & logic, and in philosophy). Elizabeth Branch Dyson, at Chicago Press, has been immensely patient with my revisions of the original manuscript, not to mention as encouraging as an editor could possibly be (and has kindly agreed to finally publish the whole shebang in the form you are reading). I would also like to thank Patricia Churchland and Elliot Sober for the initial support when this project was at the stage of a proposal, as well as two anonymous reviewers for their severe, but obviously well intentioned, criticisms of previous drafts.
Notes
[2] Although see also the delightful dialogue by Hansson (2012), featuring a graduate student and two professors of philosophy traveling with him to a conference on teaching philosophy.
[3] Interestingly, from the Greek aporetikos, which means impassable, very difficult, or hard to deal with.
References
Chalmers, D. (2015) Why Isn’t There More Progress in Philosophy? Philosophy 90:3-31.
Dietrich, E. (2011) There is no progress in philosophy. Essays in Philosophy 12:329-344.
Hansson, S.O. (2012) Editorial: Progress in Philosophy? A Dialogue. Theoria 78:181-185.
Kekes, J. (1980) The Nature of Philosophy. Rowman and Littlefield.
McGinn, C. (1993) Problems in Philosophy: The Limits of Inquiry. Blackwell.
Moody, T.C. (2006) Progress in philosophy. American Philosophical Quarterly 23:35-46.
Nagel, T. (1986) The View From Nowhere. Oxford University Press.
Nozick, R. (1981) Philosophical Explanations. Harvard University Press.
Rescher, N. (1978) Philosophical disagreements: an essay toward orientational pluralism in metaphilosophy. Review of Metaphysics 32:217-251.
Rorty, R. (1980) Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature. Blackwell.
Wittgenstein, L. (1965) The Blue and Brown Books. Harper and Row.

Arthur,
I get your point, but isn’t “progress” a fairly linear concept? In that we make progress toward something? Do you have some better, scientific way to describe it?
Yet isn’t reality somewhat relative(lowercase), in that we are not always sure if our progress is absolute, or if the goals shift with our actions? Are we climbing up, or are we just pulling everything down(think global warming), are we moving along the road, or is the road passing under us. Are we really moving toward the future, or is it just the past falling away? Does philosophy make progress, or does it just keep finding different angles to the same issues.
Science is trying to explain the world I live in too and sometimes it seems some people have spent way too much time staring at words on a page and normalcy bias gets them thinking they know way more than other people, who might actively engage that world in ways they may not understand.
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Massimo,
“Well, when we get to discuss that point I suggest that “truth” actually has multiple meanings and multiple references, which should be kept separate. So, yes, we can use terms like mathematical (and logical) truths, as long as we are clear that we are not talking about the same thing as when we say that it is true that the Sun is a star. I think empirical truths are of a very different nature from mathematical-logical ones (again, unless one is a Platonist, which I’m not, as I said a number of times).”
I think that I will take a lot of convincing about that..
I think that the “There is no highest number on the interval 0<x<1" and "the Sun is a star" are true in just the same sense, whether or not we are Platonists.
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Arthur,
I do appreciate that you like a lot of what I say, but as Massimo accuses me, I am on a bit of a mission. Having spent decades trying to figure out why the world is in the mess that it is in and why people tend to be such short term thinkers and often avoid the natural world, even though they are part of it, etc. I’ve come to the conclusion that many of these issues do trace back to deep seated conceptual problems.
Take for instance, the concept of progress, which could be considered the primary motivating factor of our civilization. That we are, by fits and starts, marching toward a brighter future.
Yet we have turned the financial medium on which the global economy exists, into an end in itself. That capitalism has mutated from the efficient transfer of value, to the creation of notational wealth as an end in itself. Which is quite evidently complete nonsense and self destructive at that, as money functions as a contract, in which every asset is backed by an obligation and so we consequently have to create equal amounts of debt, drained real value out of the economy and environment.
So the issue of progress as a linear ideal, versus the seeming reality of every action being balanced by an equal and opposite reaction, does seem very consequential, when it plays out through society.
So I do like banging heads on these subjects and if you do have specific examples of what I’m saying is wrong, or muddled, I won’t take offense, but will definitely engage on the subject and may the better argument win.
As it is, mostly I do get ignored, or told I have no idea what I’m talking about, or it is nonsense, or word salad, but few specific examples or arguments are offered up.
It is my impression that we are far more of a swarm intelligence than most people are willing to admit and much of what constitutes knowledge is passed through the group, without a full understanding and when anyone dares look under the hood and asks questions, the belief mode, rather than the thinking mode, instinctively kicks in.
So yes, going against conventional wisdom is bad, but convention has us headed toward a very high cliff.
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Hi Robin,
> I think that the “There is no highest number on the interval 0<x<1" and "the Sun is a star" are true in just the same sense, whether or not we are Platonists.
I think you're right to a point, but I think there arguably is a difference.
I would say any statement can only be true or false with respect to a certain context or frame of reference. Most importantly, this context includes definitions of the terms we are using. For instance, the Sun may be an astronomical star, but it is not a pop star.
As such , the statement "There is no highest number on the interval 0<x<1" is only true with respect to a certain axiomatic system wherein our terms are defined. It's usually taken as a given that we are using a standard system such as the Zermelo-Fraenkel axioms or whatever.
"The Sun is a star" is true with respect to the natural, physical world and the usual interpretation of the meaning of those terms in the English language. For most people, this is a much more intuitive, natural frame of reference than that of mathematical axioms. For people (like Massimo, apparently), who regard this natural frame of reference as preferred or default, this sense of truth is privileged and so qualitatively different from mathematical truth.
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Hi Massimo,
> I suggest in the chapter on progress in philosophy that there are no answers to philosophical questions
I think this is true for some questions (particularly in the domain of axiology perhaps) but not all, e.g. whether a piece of software could ever produce consciousness, or whether God exists. There has to be a fact of the matter on these questions even if they cannot be settled empirically, right? You think Searle is actually right and Dennett is actually wrong, surely? You don’t just think there are competing viewpoints?
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Afternoon everyone,
I’ve just dropped in, for the first time in a while, and read the last two articles. Interesting experiment Massimo, but does your publisher know about his and how did you get their permission?
I see that Synred has brodix pretty well sussed out (not that that’s hard):
“I can’t follow what Brodrix is saying, so I can’t explain why it’s wrong. It just makes no sense to me. ”
I rather raised Massimo’s ire by summarising the same sentiment in one pithy word related to damaged crockery.
Synred, I have in the past made a genuine, good-faith effort to talk to brodix and discern whether there is any sensible content beneath the appearance of not making any sense. The short answer is that there isn’t, it’s like that all the way down.
But you have no chance of persuading him of this. He thinks that he is asking pertinent and insightful questions about the basics of physics. When physicists don’t respond, he concludes that it’s because physics is an ideological cabal and that we simply don’t think about the basic questions that he so insightfully does.
He then concludes that we’re all cowering in fear: oh please, please brodix, don’t say these things, your vastly superior insight is way beyond our ability to reply to; you are revealing fundamental flaws in physics that we’ve simply never thought about, please stop brodix, we’ll all be out of a job!
If you try explaining that the lack of reply is simply that you can’t discern any sensible content in anything he says about physics, and that there is no way of explaining what is wrong with it when it just seems to be sciencey words strung together in a way that makes no sense, then he’ll conclude you’re part of the cabal and are thus giving a cover story for the previous paragraph. (He thinks that everyone else can make sense of his remarks about physics, and physicists are only pretending that they can’t.)
Eventually you’ll be tempted to resort to the pithy damaged-crockery word that will get you into trouble. I thus recommend just ignoring him.
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As a more substantive comment, does philosophy make progress?
The view I’ve defended is that philosophy is a style of what could be termed “scientia” or broadly “science”, where that means human attempts to model and understand the world around us.
There are many styles of doing science/scientia — observation, experiment, theorising, computational modelling, for example — and “philosophy” is a useful term for a particular style of asking certain sorts of questions about the enterprise.
Does the science/scientia ensemble make progress? Yes it does. Does philosophy contribute to that? Sure! Is it sense to ask about progress within each of those “styles” individually? Well no, not really, since progress comes from the entwined contributions of all of them. None of the other styles would get anywhere on their own.
Massimo:
It won’t surprise anyone here that I see it differently. Mathematical truths, logical truths and empirical truths are all wrapped up in the Quinean-style web of ideas. There is nowhere else for them to be. Thus, given that the whole point of the Quinean-style web is that everything is entwined, it’s not that sensible to draw fundamental distinctions between them.
Thus, maths and logic are adopted as models of the empirical world in just the same way as laws of physics are. Thus the statement: “1 + 1 = 2” and the axiom modus ponens have the same status as, say, an inverse-square law applied to the force of gravity.
Further they are all adopted and tested in the same way (trying them out compared to alternatives in the Quinean-style web, with the overall web then being verified against empirical reality).
Nor am I, although I’ve never really understood that mathematical Platonism is supposed to amount to. What attributes of “existence” am I supposed to assent to if I assent to the idea that mathematics Platonically “exists”?
As far as I can gather, the only attribute being claimed is that the mathematical theorem is consistent and coherent with the axioms. In which case, yes, I agree, Pythagoras’s Theorem is consistent and coherent. If that’s all I’m being asked to assent to, then I guess I’m a mathematical Platonist.
But, my personal preference is to give ontological status only to things with causative capabilities. Thus I would not call myself a mathematical Platonist (sorry DM!).
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Hi Coel,
> What attributes of “existence” am I supposed to assent to
Mainly, it’s the idea that things have objective properties independent of us. We can’t by an act of will make Pythagoras’s theorem false. It’s true whether we like it or not. This is a true property of triangles in Euclidean geometry. These properties can be analysed, explored and discovered, with similar results being replicated by different people. The analogy to the exploration of the natural world is obvious. Subjectively, it feels like the objects of our study have a kind of reality of their own. It is natural (to many) to extend the meaning of existence to apply to these objects.
Also the idea that within any given context there is a range of possibilities. Some possibilities do exist and some do not. There is presumably a fact of the matter regarding whether Goldbach’s conjecture is provable or not. We don’t know if it is possible or not, but it seems there is a fact of the matter either way. So either that proof exists (in potentia) or it doesn’t. When I assert that it does exists, I’m just asserting that the proof is possible. It’s largely just a manner of speaking.
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Hi Disagreeable Me,
Take the statement “if A then B”, the truth of it does not depend in any way on the truth of A.
Similarly if I have a statement “x is a consequence of axioms A” then the truth of that statement does not depend upon the axioms being true of false, it is simply true or false.
So when I say “There is no highest number in the interval 0<x<1" it is obviously implied that I am using a certain definition, just as I know that Massimo does not mean a newspaper by the Sun.
And the axioms I am using are implied in that definition. Substitute other axioms then you are changing my definitions, just as I would be changing Massimo's definitions if I were to decide that the Sun is a newspaper.
Thus the statement "There is no highest number in the interval 0<x<1" is not just true of certain axioms, it is simply true. The axioms are implied by my definitions.
Hi Coel,
But a theorem is not simply consistent and coherent. The rules of chess are consistent and coherent but the rules of chess are not true. On the other hand there are certain mathematical facts about the rules of chess that are true (not just consistent and coherent).
The Pythagorean Theorem is an odd case, since it can be taken as an axiom, unless one chooses certain other axioms in which case it is a theorem which is true of those axioms. So I am not sure I would say the Pythagorean Theorem is true, it would depend on the context.
But I don't see what any of this has to do with Platonism. What I say would just as much apply if you define mathematics as the practice of choosing certain symbols and manipulating according to certain rules you have made up.
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Incidentally, welcome back Coel, even if it is just a brief visit.
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Let me underline this.
Suppose we have a statement P = “X is a consequence of axioms A”.
it would not make sense to say that P is only true of axioms A, since that would suggest that X might not be a consequence of axioms A because it is not a consequence of axioms B. P is just true or false, full stop.
What I contend is, that whenever we say that a mathematical statement is true we are always making a statement in the form of “X is a consequence of axioms A” because we intend it to be true of certain definitions and these definitions imply certain axioms.
Thus a mathematical statement is not true or false in the context of certain axioms, it is just true or false.
This is no different from any utterance on any subject. We intend any statement to be true only in the context of certain definitions, we never intend a statement to be true for any definition of the words in it.
So I think that mathematical statements are true or false in just the same sense that any statement is true or false.
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Hi Robin,
> So when I say “There is no highest number in the interval 0<x<1" it is obviously implied that I am using a certain definition,
That whole statement about the interval is analogous to x in "x is a consequence of axioms A". x is only true or false with respect to A. You are right that the A you are using is obvious. The same goes for the statement about the Sun — it is only true with regard to a certain context A, even though that context is once again obvious.
My point being that the 'A' for mathematical statements is seen by some as contrived, artificial or arbitrary, dependent on the whims of mathematicians, while the 'A' for statements about the physical world is seen as default, natural and privileged, and this is how the two statements differ.
I do basically agree with you, I'm just trying to explain the other point of view as I understand it.
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Hi Robin,
To put it another way, a common (some would say naive, but I think it’s basically OK) account of truth is the correspondence theory of truth, where a statement is true if it corresponds to something about reality.
True statements about the sun straightforwardly correspond to things in the natural world. Mathematical statements don’t directly correspond to anything in reality if one is not a Platonist: since mathematical objects are not real, statements about them cannot correspond to reality and so cannot be true in the same sense.
They might be said to correspond to things in reality indirectly: a true mathematical statement might correspond to what mathematicians will agree to, for instance, but this indirection is enough to make this a different kind of truth.
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DM,
“Mathematical statements don’t directly correspond to anything in reality if one is not a Platonist: since mathematical objects are not real, statements about them cannot correspond to reality and so cannot be true in the same sense.”
So does this mean you are not a Platonist, in the sense of the term that there is a one to one correspondence between the math and its physical basis?
For instance, it was assumed the regular, geometric actions of the stars reflected a one to one correspondence with a physical mechanism called epicycles. As there proved to be a more effective explanation, so it would seem reasonable not to attach any more significance to a regular pattern than it warrants.
Coel,
You do seem as touchy as ever. So I assume that anyone daring to question the physical basis of our current cosmological model is completely nutzo, as multiverses are inevitably correct, since there could never be a more reasonable explanation for the universe, than it began at a point 13.8 billion years ago and logically happened other times.
It is not as though you are alone in this belief, but I’m afraid I will remain a heretic.
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So the issue of progress as a linear ideal, versus the seeming reality of every action being balanced by an equal and opposite reaction, does seem very consequential, when it plays out through society.
Action being balanced by ‘an equal and opposite reaction’ is just a metaphor outside physics. Inside physics it is a quantitative statement called ‘the conservation of momentum’.
Outside physics I don’t even think the metaphor is true much of the time. Depends on the application.
See too literal!
When they say ‘Bernie Sanders has momentum’ on TV I don’t know what they mean.
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Arthur,
I think it safe to say that Bernie’s momentum isn’t absolute. That it’s relative to some larger context. Necessarily one so complex as that every feedback loop connected to the flapping of this particular butterfly’s wings cannot be calculated.
DM,
To put it in my own simple minded terms, would you say the laws/math are an expression of the process, or that they dictate the process?
As I see it, while form follows function, there is no function without form. Such that they are tautological. Which would mean it would make no more sense to have a property not expressed by a process, then it would be to have a process which doesn’t express a property.
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“Mainly, it’s the idea that things have objective properties independent of us. ”
I don’t think anybody disagrees with that, but it seems like Plateau meant something more. The forms were the cause of the shadows.
In MUH the math is the cause or source of the shadows (consciousness? content of consciousness? Maya?).
This is beyond the mere fact that any set of possible axioms has consequences whether anybody works them out or not.
Also, ‘things have objective properties independent of us’ as stated is perfectly consistent with ‘ding an sich’ Kantian type view point. I suspect you didn’t mean ‘things’, but some more like mathematical structures or theorems, the ‘things’ under discussion.
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Babylonian astronomers likely thought of ‘stars’ as those ‘little points of light in the sky’. They would deny the sun is a star. By their lights they would be right.
We’ve changed the definition of ‘star’ to correspond to what we’ve learned about the nature of those l’ittle points of light.’
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So logic is not real if you’re not a Platonist?
Mathematical statements are real, but they are only statements, not stuff.
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@All,
Sorry, I’ve talked enough about Platonism for now on this thread and it really isn’t very on topic. Apologies to Massimo!
I’m happy to talk endlessly about it elsewhere. I can be contacted easily enough via my blog (disagreeableme.blogspot.com) or twitter if anybody wants to continue the conversation.
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DM: “Sorry, I’ve talked enough about Platonism for now on this thread and it really isn’t very on topic.”
Thanks, DM.
I found this second part in Massimo’s Intro much better than the first. I had to regather myself, so to speak, and revisit the Table of Contents of his book to allow him the latitude to explore “progress” and its differences and similarities across major intellectual disciplines in subsequent posts. To some extent, then, I suspect that his account or approach will rightly or wrongly, in and of itself, be demonstrative of what it means to engage in philosophic inquiry.
Like Dan K, when the word “progress” appears, many alarms go off for me. By way of explanation, Massimo comments, “This is a technical discussion aimed at people interested in philosophy, so we are free to explore the meaning of terms, and even clarify or alter their definition, as suitable for our goals.” At this point, a response along these lines seems unsupported at best and at worst inadvertently self-serving, i.e., carts and horses.
Earlier, in addressing DM, Massimo writes, “I suggest in the chapter on progress in philosophy that there are no answers to philosophical questions, only a series of alternative frameworks that may be more or less useful.” This response seems to echo Rescher’s “aporetic clusters,” which Massimo briefly discusses. This concept–aporia–is new to me. Very simply, it is suggestive of an impasse or a seemingly irresolvable puzzle. Interested readers can query it, if they haven’t already, on Wikipedia, where Rescher is referenced, and in SEP, in which its use surfaces in a number of topics. However, it is not clear what, if any, “go-to” method philosophy employs or how the “necrology of failed arguments” is arrived at other than attrition or happenstance.
Meanwhile, I look forward to Massimo’s explication of the teleonomic as distinguished from the teleologic in discussing “progress” in the major intellectual domains. At times, it seems we are bystanders who overhear a dispute among members of a track and field relay team making cases for who should run the various legs of a race. This is fascinating stuff, and I appreciate Massimo’s stated intent of making it as accessible as he can for a general audience.
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DM,
Just out of curiosity, how would you construct a discussion about philosophy in general and the progression of philosophy in particular, that totally avoided the issue of Platonism? The basic idea that our perceptions are reflections of something deeper. It would seem to me that every offshoot of philosophy, from religion to physics, is essentially about that.
Now the more simplistic versions can lead us up some blind alleys, when what seems irreducible turns out to be anything but, yet even they can prove enlightening. How much of the foundations of geometry were generated by computing epicycles, for instance?
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Thomas Jones, the track officials have just made the first call on your name to get in the blocks for your spot on the third leg of the medley relay. 😉
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“When I hear the phrase ‘progress in philosophy,’ I unlock the safety on my Browning!” — Zeno of Elea, wrongly attributed to Herman Göring.
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Philosophy asks the questions. Everything else, from politics to physics, provides the answers.
What is life? What is reality? What is real? How should we act toward each other and toward nature? Is there meaning? What provides meaning? Is life livable without meaning?
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“Is life livable without meaning?”
File that under “entertainment industry.”
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Okay, Socratic, I had this coming I suppose:
“The strategies for how to run a relay race deal mostly with the order of the runners. Who runs first, who runs second, and so on? The most popular strategy for running a successful relay race is running your best runner last, and your worst runner third.”
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Thomas, I actually knew that, from the record-setting high school track teams in Lancaster (Texas, not California or Pennsylvania, folks), when I was the editor of that suburban paper. But, I’d at least consciously forgotten about that.
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Oh yeah, Lancaster is just outside of Dallas where I met my wife. I actually lettered in T&F when in high school, but I was a pole vaulter. No jokes, please. 🙂
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Lee Harvey Oswald is buried at Rose Hill Cemetery in Lancaster. There is an interesting (interesting-strange) dive a few blocks from there called the Ozzie Rabbit Lodge dedicated to LHO (more or less). A very strange mural of Ruby shooting Oswald graces the wall. It,ah, lacks artistic merit.
It is a real pit; I don’t think I’d dare consume anything there that wasn’t laced with anti-septic. The customers are neither assassination buffs nor philosophers. They seem to be alcoholics completely oblivious to the weird décor.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ozzie-Rabbit-Lodge/122125821131029
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