[for a brief explanation of this ongoing series, as well as a full table of contents, go here]
“To be is to be the value of a variable.”
(Willard Van Orman Quine)
We have seen so far that philosophy broadly construed has a significant public relation problem, and I’ve argued that one of the root causes of this problem is its sometimes antagonistic relationship with science, mostly, but not only, fueled by some high prominent scientists who locked horns with equally prominent anti-scientistic philosophers. In this chapter we will examine the other side of the same coin: the embracing by a number of philosophers of a more positive relationship with science, to the point of either grounding philosophical work exclusively in a science-based naturalistic view of the world, or even of attempting to erase any significant differences between philosophy and science. This complex discourse is sometimes referred to as the “naturalistic turn” in modern analytic philosophy, it arguably began with the criticism of positivism led by Willard Van Orman Quine and others in the middle part of the 20th century, and it is still shaping a significant portion of the debate in metaphilosophy, the subfield of inquiry that reflects critically on the nature of philosophy itself (Joll 2010).
Two very large caveats first. To begin with, which philosophy am I talking about now? We have seen earlier that the term applies to a highly heterogeneous set of traditions, spanning different geographical areas, cultures, and time periods. To be clear — and for the reasons I highlighted in the last chapter — from now on and for the rest of the book I will employ the term “philosophy” to indicate the broadest possible conception of the sort of activity began and named by the pre-Socratics in ancient Greece, what I termed the DRA (discursive rationality and argumentation) approach. This will comprise, of course, all of the current analytic tradition, but also parts of continental philosophy, and certain aspects or traditions of “Eastern” philosophies. It will also include the work of modern and contemporary philosophers that do not fit easily within the fairly strict confines of proper analytic philosophy: both versions of Wittgenstein, for instance, at least some strains of feminist philosophy, and much more. If this sounds insufficiently precise that is — I think — a reflection of the complexity and richness of philosophical thought, not necessarily a shortcoming of my own concept of it.
Secondly, it must be admitted that venturing into a discussion of “naturalism” is perilous, for the simple reason that there is an almost endless variety of positions within that very broad umbrella, and plenty of people who feel very strongly about them. In the following, however, I will focus specifically on approaches to naturalism (and the philosophers who pursue them) that are most useful or otherwise enlightening for the general project of this book, which largely involves the relationships between science and philosophy and how they both make progress, albeit according to different conceptions of progress.
Basic metaphilosophy
Before tackling naturalism, we need to indulge in a bit more of what is referred to as “metaphilosophy,” i.e., philosophizing about the nature of philosophy itself. We have already examined what a number of contemporary philosophers think philosophy is, and I argued that there is significantly more agreement than a superficial look would lead one to believe, certainly more than the oft-made comment that every philosopher has a (radically) different idea of what the field is about. Arguably the most famous characterizations of philosophy were those given by two of the major figures in the field during the 20th century, Alfred Whitehead and Bertrand Russell. Whitehead quipped that all (Western) philosophy is a footnote to Plato, meaning that Plato identified all the major areas of philosophical investigation; a bit more believably, Russell commented that philosophy is the sort of inquiry that can be pursued by using the methods first deployed by Plato. The fact is, discussions concerning what the proper domain and methods of philosophy are (i.e., discussions in metaphilosophy, regardless of whether explicitly conducted in a self-conscious metaphilosophical setting) have been going on since at least Socrates. Just recall his famous analogy between his trade and the role of a midwife, which conjures an image of the philosopher as a facilitator of sound thinking; or Plato’s relentless attacks against the Sophists, who thought of themselves as legitimate philosophers, but were accused of doing something much closer to what we would consider lawyering.
I think it is obvious that Whitehead was exaggerating about all philosophy being a footnote to Plato, regardless of how generous we are inclined to be toward the Greek thinker. Not only there are huge swaths of modern philosophy (most of the contemporary “philosophies of,” to which we will return in the last chapter) which were obviously inaccessible to Plato, but he (and especially Socrates) made it pretty clear that they had relatively little interest in natural philosophy, with their focus being largely on ethics, metaphysics, epistemology (to a point), and aesthetics. It was Aristotle that further broadened the field with the development of formal logic, as well as a renewed emphasis on the sort of natural philosophy that had already took off with the pre-Socratics (particularly the atomists) and that eventually became science.
A rapid survey of post-Greek philosophy shows that different philosophers have held somewhat different views of the value of their discipline (Joll 2010). Hume, for instance, wrote that “One considerable advantage that arises from Philosophy, consists in the sovereign antidote which it affords to superstition and false religion” (Of Suicide, in Hume 1748), thus echoing the ancient Epicurean quest for freeing humanity from the fears generated by religious superstition. This somewhat practical take on the value of philosophy was also evident — in very different fashions — in Hegel, who thought that philosophy is a way to help people feel at home in the world, and in Marx, who famously quipped that the point is not to interpret the world, but to change it.
With the onset of the 20th century we have the maturing of modern academic philosophy, and the development of more narrow conceptions of the nature of the discipline. The early Wittgenstein of the Tractatus thought that philosophy is essentially a logical analysis of formal language (Wittgenstein 1921), which was naturally well received by the logical positivists that were dominant just before the naturalistic turn with which we shall shortly concern ourselves. Members of the Vienna Circle went so far as promulgating a manifesto in which they explicitly reduced philosophy to logical analysis: “The task of philosophical work lies in … clarification of problems and assertions, not in the propounding of special ‘philosophical’ pronouncements. The method of this clarification is that of logical analysis” (Neurath et al. 1973 / 1996). From these bases, it was but a small step to the forceful attack on traditional metaphysics mounted by the positivists. Metaphysics was cast aside as a pseudo-discipline, and prominent continental philosophers — especially Heidegger — were dismissed as obfuscatory cranks.
I think it is fair to say that a major change in the attitude of practicing philosophers toward philosophy coincided with the diverging rejections of positivism that are perhaps best embodied by (the later) Wittgenstein and by Quine. We will examine Quine in some more detail in the next section, since he was pivotal to the naturalistic turn. The Wittgenstein of the Investigations shifted from considering an ideal logical language to exploring the structure — and consequences for philosophy — of natural language. As a result of this shift, Wittgenstein began to think that philosophical problems need to be dissolved rather than solved, since they are rooted in linguistic misinterpretations (cfr. his famous quip about letting the fly out of the fly bottle, Investigations 309), which led to his legendary confrontation with Karl Popper, who very much believed in the existence and even solvability of philosophical questions, especially in ethics (Edmonds and Eidinow 2001).
Most crucially as far as we are concerned here, the Wittgenstein of the Investigations was critical of some philosophers’ envy of science. He thought that seeking truths only and exclusively in science amounts to a greatly diminished understanding of the world. In this Wittgenstein clearly departed not just from the attitude of the Vienna Circle and the positivists in general, but also from his mentor, the quintessentially analytic philosopher Bertrand Russell. It is because of this shift between the early and late Wittgenstein that — somewhat ironically — both analytic and continental traditions can rightfully claim him as a major exponent of their approach. [1]
This very brief metaphilosophical survey cannot do without a quick look at the American pragmatists, who developed a significantly different outlook on what philosophy is and how it works. Recall, to begin with, their famous maxim, as articulated by Peirce (1931-58, 5, 402): “Consider what effects, which might conceivably have practical bearings, we conceive the object of our conception to have. Then, our conception of these effects is the whole of our conception of the object.” Peirce and James famously interpreted the maxim differently, the first one referring it to meaning, the latter (more controversially) to truth. Regardless, for my purposes here the pragmatists can be understood as being friendly to naturalism and science, and indeed as imposing strict limits on what counts as sound philosophy, albeit in a very different way from the positivists.
I find it even more interesting, therefore, that the most prominent — and controversial — of the “neo-pragmatists,” Richard Rorty, attempted to move pragmatism into territory that is so antithetic to science that Rorty is nowadays often counted among “continental” and even postmodern philosophers. His insistence on a rather extreme form of coherentism, wherein justification of beliefs is relativized to an individual’s understanding of the world, (Rorty
1980), eventually brought him close to the anti-science faction in the so-called “science wars” of the 1990s and beyond (see the chapter on Philosophy Itself). He even suggested “putting politics first and tailoring a philosophy to suit” (Rorty 1991, 178). But that is not the direction I am taking here. Instead, we need to sketch the contribution of arguably the major pro-naturalistic philosopher of the 20th century, Quine, to lay the basis for a broader discussion in the latter part of this chapter of what naturalism is and what it may mean to philosophy.
Notes
[1] The discontinuity between the early and late Wittgenstein, however, should not be overplayed. As several commentators have pointed out, for instance, both the Tractatus and the Investigations are very much concerned with the idea that a primary task of philosophy is the critique of language.
References
Edmonds, D. and Eidinow, J. (2001) Wittgenstein’s Poker: The Story of a Ten-Minute Argument Between Two Great Philosophers. Ecco.
Hume, D. (1748) An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding (accessed on 8 February 2013).
Joll, N. (2010) Contemporary metaphilosophy. Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (accessed on 26 June 2012).
Neurath, O., Carnap, R., Hahn, H. (1973 / 1996) The Scientific Conception of the World: the Vienna Circle, in S. Sarkar (ed.) The Emergence of Logical Empiricism: from 1900 to the Vienna Circle. Garland Publishing, pp. 321–340.
Peirce, C.S. (1931–58) The Collected Papers of Charles Sanders Peirce. C. Hartshorne, P. Weiss and A. Burks (eds). Harvard University Press.
Rorty, R. (1980) Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature. Blackwell.
Rorty, R. (1991) The Priority of Democracy to Philosophy. In: Objectivity, Relativism, and Truth. Philosophical Papers, Volume 1. Cambridge University Press.
Wittgenstein, L. (1921) Tractatus Logicus-Philosophicus (accessed on 8 February 2013).

There does seem to be a bit of a Catch 22, in that as soon as one leaves home plate, asks a question, frames the issues, etc, it creates some degree of bias, that either informs whatever follows, or contradicts some other frame.
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that both informs whatever follows and contradicts some other frames.
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“As a result of this shift, Wittgenstein began to think that philosophical problems need to be dissolved rather than solved, since they are rooted in linguistic misinterpretations”
A minor quibble, but I would suggest he is pre-dated in this by Carnap, whose “Pseudo Problems in Philosophy” has the same thesis and came out in 1928.
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To continue the thought;
When we play out the question and try to fill out the answer, it seems to evolve into some authoritarian, absolutist religion, where all that matters is the answer and even the question is erased. Allah Akbar.
But when we keep trying to parse the question and keep stepping further back to get an even bigger view, that also feeds on itself and we have these debates as to if philosophy makes any progress at all.
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It may be worthwhile to imagine philosophy as something like the “steel-frame of the sciences”. This metaphor is apt in the sense that, much like a steel-frame, which burrows deep into the foundations of a building, and act as the basic structure on which the building rests:
– philosophical presuppositions of the sciences are foundational and basic (e.g., the scientific method, hypothetico-deductive model, the uniformitarian principle, etc), which the sciences do not question, but take for granted, and without which science cannot be done;
– philosophical presuppositions go unseen by the sciences, being too fundamental and basic to appear anywhere in the details as opposed to the outline itself, so many scientists fall into the trap of assuming their science is philosophy-free (just as the steel-frame, covered by walls of concrete, is not the visible part of a building);
– because the philosophical aspects of the sciences are unseen, scientists are often silent about it, and when speaking on it, often mistakes its nature, so all credit of the building’s beauty and style is accorded to the visible aspects as opposed to the invisible (philosophy) aspects which gets no credit; and finally –
– because, much like the integrity of the building heavily depends on the robustness of the steel-frame, the integrity of science also depends on the robustness of the underlying philosophy (for example, if you throw away uniformitarianism, for whatever reason, it amounts to rejection of the entire scientific enterprise).
Further, this metaphor is metaphilosophically flattering as a self-descript, and shows how integral philosophical principles are to the scientific enterprise.
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I would imagine that scientists woukd deny that they take things like the hypothetico-deductive model for granted, and that these things are only in their toolkit because they happen to be bringing home the bacon.
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“antagonistic relationship with science, mostly, but not only, fueled by some high prominent scientists who locked horns with equally prominent anti-scientistic philosopher”
Did you mean ‘anti-scientistic’ or ‘anti-science’? Feyerabend to the few physicist who’ve heard of him seems anti-science. Nobody I know ever read him – just heard some of his more outre statements and maybe the title ‘Against Method’.
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synred,
I meant anti-scientistic. Even Feyerabend wasn’t anti-science — regardless of how scientists themselves saw him. Actually, I’m about to write a short commentary about him for a technical journal, will post the link once published.
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// I would imagine that scientists would deny that they take things like the hypothetico-deductive model for granted, and that these things are only in their toolkit because they happen to be bringing home the bacon. //
2 objections.
– first, not scientists but philosophers of science themselves have considered this model to incomplete, not so much on empirical (scientific) as on conceptual (philosophical grounds).
– second,this is a description of the scientific method itself. Here’s how wikipedia puts it:
“According to it (HD model), scientific inquiry proceeds by formulating a hypothesis in a form that could conceivably be falsified by a test on observable data”.
i seriously don’t see how scientists can scientifically object to it, when its the very definition of scientific practice.objections on empirical grounds can be made only by assuming this model and then using this model to object against it!
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Hi Haulianlal Guite,
Would I be right in guessing that you are a philosopher rather than a scientist? 🙂
I must beg to differ. Science does not rest on philosophical presuppositions, rather science (a process of figuring out what works) is itself a product of science, in that modern scientific methods are the product of figuring out what works.
Thus science is validated by the fact that it is very successful when applied to the world, especially in the matter of making successful predictions. For example, science can predict that there will be a transit of Mercury on May 9th, and — I’m willing to bet with anyone — that prediction will (with as much certainty as humans can ever achieve) come true.
Grounding science in what works is a vastly more secure foundation than grounding it in philosophical presuppositions. Afterall, what methods do you have for validating philosophical presuppositions?
I don’t agree. Science could, in principle, deal with non-uniformitarianism. You’d simply ask, does uniformitarianism or non-uniformitarianism explain the evidence better? Which would be more successful at generating predictions that we could then verify? Thus science can reveal non-uniformity in nature just as well as revealling uniformity.
I don’t agree with that either. Philosophy of science is more of a commentary about science rather than an underpinning of science. For example, when Popper expounded his ideas about falsification, more or less no scientist decided they needed to change what they were doing and adopt new ideas; rather Popper was providing an insightful commentary about how science was already operating. Science had already arrived at such attitudes by figuring out what worked best.
Your metaphor is also going to run into problems over how your steel-frame edifice got erected and validated.
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“Even Feyerabend wasn’t anti-science — regardless of how scientists themselves saw him”
He’s really bad a PR then!
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Hi Coel,
I’m flattered to be called a philosopher, so thanks!
// I must beg to differ. Science does not rest on philosophical presuppositions, rather science (a process of figuring out what works) is itself a product of science, in that modern scientific methods are the product of figuring out what works. //
= circular argument.
would you agree that, by your own admission, science is a process of figuring out what works? And will I be correct in assuming that by “what works” you mean a prediction that is confirmed by the data? If so, then that is an account of the scientific method itself. but the question is: how do you test this method?
now you will probably say, “by seeing how it works, whether it conforms to experience, data, etc”. but again, that is the very method whose validity we are willing to determine!
//Science could, in principle, deal with non-uniformitarianism. You’d simply ask, does uniformitarianism or non-uniformitarianism explain the evidence better? Which would be more successful at generating predictions that we could then verify? Thus science can reveal non-uniformity in nature just as well as revealling uniformity. //
= ‘uniformitarianism’ means ‘the present is the key to the past’ (check wikipedia for introduction). I cannot see how you can do science unless u assume that the laws that are applicable in the present have always applied in the past – the very statement of uniformitarianism. now you say this principle can be tested – but how? unless you can time travel and go back to the past and see whether light remains invariant in, say, 1billion years ago.
I mean, to test the principle, you will need to come up with certain test conditions (scientific control), but why should those conditions, which depend on other scientific laws, be trusted in the first place? the point is you have to ASSUME certain laws (or constants, like the half life of proton) have always applied throughout cosmic history. otherwise, you cannot even have the conditions for testing it.
//Your metaphor is also going to run into problems over how your steel-frame edifice got erected and validated.//
= i’d be happy to argue this point out. make no mistake though: the edifice is science itself, its just that it has a component (its steel-frame) that is certain philosophical principles without which the edifice cannot be. yes, you can always question the edifice, as some have done; but that is to question science as a whole. a proposition i’m sure u will disagree with
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Can’t see how “Against Method ” could be considered anti science, a little ahead of its time perhaps. It is not much different to what Coel says here and no one suggests thst he is anti science.
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I don’t see that has circular. Scientist can study their own methods and invent their own name for what they do. Of course, it did not appear ex nihilo, but grew in the soil of philosophy and at various stages practitioners looked back on themselves and their practices.
Beware the ‘intentional stance’ it can make things look circular that are not. Science does not ‘figure out how things work’, scientist do that and call it ‘science.’ Science doesn’t call itself science or recognize that it is ‘empirically working out how things work.’
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Nobody I know in physics read ‘Against Method’ and with that title they are unlikely to do so.
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synred,
Feyerabend didn’t just have a PR problem, but an attitude one as well…
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Synred,
forgive the anthrophomorphic address of “science”; its semantics.
here is the circularity, stated in a simpler manner:
John: what is the scientific method?
Max: it is the testing of hypothesis to see whether it works.
John: can this “testing of hypothesis” itself be a hypothesis, subject to testing?
Max: oh yeah! why not?
John: so how will you test that hypothesis?
Max: by seeing whether the hypothesis works, of course!
John: so you want to test whether the hypothesis “scientific method is the testing of hypothesis to see whether it works”, actually works?
Max: well .. em … yeah!
John: so, the hypothesis “scientific method is the testing of hypothesis to see whether it works”, is acceptable if it works? And you don’t see the circularity here, this attempt to validate or invalidate the scientific method on the basis of its own method of validation?
Well if you can’t see the circularity, perhaps I can be of no help. maybe someone else can better explain 🙂
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It should be noted that epicycles were effective at predicting eclipses of the sun and moon and Newton’s theory of gravitation was good enough to use for getting Apollo missions to the moon.
So if the scientific method is what works, why not just keep building on them? A few patches, like dark energy or inflation and they would be good as new.
Given we exist as the center point of our coordinate system of the cosmos, epicycles were a perfectly legitimate mathematical model. In fact, each of us is the center of our own view of the universe and with enough complexity, it should be quite possible to create a model reflecting that. The only issue would be to accept it for what it is and nothing more. If we walk across the room, that doesn’t mean there are Titans pushing the entire universe in the opposite direction.
So it would seem the scientific model should keep in mind the “what works,” is not an absolute foundation to build on and assume those patterns express anything more than they do. Or we start building out entire cosmologies based on a few data points and it will begin to resemble astrology more than astronomy.
To use the structural integrity analogy, you could build a beach house on sand, but not a skyscraper.
If we don’t want it to become a religion, we need to step back and reset occasionally and not just plow forward, adding imaginary patches over the gaps between our models and the observations.
Massimo,
I’m not trying to stir up trouble, but these were the most telling examples of how even science has gotten into a rut in the past and might possibly get into similar ruts in the future. Neither God or string theory can be disproven, when you are allowed to fill in the gaps between theory and observation and everyone accepts that it must be so, because you are the expert.
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also, synred, perhaps physicists shouldn’t judge a book from its cover, or its title… Besides, it is now established wisdom in philosophy of science that there is no such thing as a coherent, algorithm-like, scientific method, so Robin is right, in some respects Feyerabend was indeed ahead of his time.
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Brodix,
Are you absolutely positive you are not trying to stir up trouble? Those examples look suspiciously familiar…
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Hi Haulianlal,
But the whole and only claim made by science is that it can successfully model the world, in the sense of generating predictions that have a good track record of being verified, and in the sense that engineering based on science does actually work, in that jet aircraft do transport us from one place to another.
Thus if we verify those claims then we’ve verified the scientific method as doing what it is claimed to do. The only alternative would be to argue that aircraft don’t actually fly, it’s all an illusion, and that science’s previous predictions of eclipse times and everything else have never come true — which would be a somewhat idiosyncratic philosophical stance!
By scientific “laws” we just mean “behaviour”, so the question is whether the behaviour in the past was the same as now. And yes, science can address that because how things were in the past often has consequences for what we can observe today.
For example, a non-uniformitarian idea is that, early on in the solar-system’s history, a large planet hit the new-born Earth, and the resulting debris formed the Moon. We can then test such ideas through analysing the compositions of Moon rock, etc.
But we can *see* how things were in the past by simply observing light from distant galaxies that was emitted long in the past. For example, one of the fundamental constants of physics is the “fine structure constant”, called alpha. We can look at ancient light to test whether alpha was constant.
E.g. “From the Sloan Digital Sky Survey … we investigate the possible variation of the fine-structure constant over cosmological time-scales … and obtain Delta-alpha/alpha = (0.9 +/- 1.8) * 10^-5.” (arxiv.org/abs/1501.00560)
What we could not do is investigate a claim that something was different in the past in such a way that had no observable consequences today. But that’s just one of an infinite number of possible ideas that have no observable implications, and they get excised by Occam’s razor (which is just as much a scientific principle as a philosophical one!).
If we accept a Neurath’s Raft or Quinean-web model of science, then we indeed do have to make some working assumptions while testing parts of the web, we can’t throw the whole thing up in the air at once, but we can then test any component of the web that we like. We can always then ask, ok, is *that* law constant, or is *that* half-life changing?
There is no question we can not ask. To ask whether something was different in the past we simply ask whether making it different would result in a better model in terms of explanatory and predictive power.
But in the Neurath’s Raft model, any part of the edifice can be questioned and examined. If the assumptions make science work better then that verifies them. Thus all of the steel-scaffolding gets verified by the fact that science works, just as much as any other part of the Raft gets verified. Thus all parts, including the steel frame, are part of science.
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Brodix (if i may comment on your post),
I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you write, and the problems you identify, including the dangers of science becoming another dogma again (which, acc to Feyerabend and co, it already is). I do not, however, see how your conclusion follows from it.
yes, epicycles are useful mathematical models, till something more useful comes up. but that is a bad example. after all, it is the scientific method (at a broader understanding, including such ideals like Occam’s razor – again, another philosophical heuristic) which helps us eliminate such epicycles from our set of scientific explanation. it is by the effective use of the scientific method that epicycles fall from grace.
// So it would seem the scientific model should keep in mind the “what works,” is not an absolute foundation to build on and assume those patterns express anything more than they do.//
= i wholeheartedly agree it is not an absolute foundation of all knowledge. But the scientific method is the absolute foundation of science because the method is how modern science gets defined in the first place! to say it is not amounts to redefining “bachelor” to mean something other than “unmarried”.
further, if I decide to disagree with the scientific method on empirical grounds, I can do so only by appealing to the scientific method (which again amounts to saying ‘accept only if it is empirically confirmed’). i hope you see the circularity here: the moment you reject the scientific method on empirical grounds, you can do so only if you somehow assume the scientific method itself first, which is your means of rejection.
the dogma we should be scared of is the self-refuting thesis of scientism – the belief that the scientific method is the only method for discovering and understanding reality, in toto …
Regards.
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Massimo,
I would gladly use string theory as an example of the model(atomism) being pushed to extremes, but I haven’t spent the last several decades picking at the loose ends in it.
Coming from a amateur philosophic viewpoint, I see both the singular universe and atomism rooted in a western bias toward the object over the context. Nodes, rather than networks. The problem for the eastern context oriented view, is that it doesn’t emphasize the sort of focus on detail that provides the impetus for science.
They invented gunpowder. We invented guns.
China was happy as the inland empire. Europe set out to conquer the world.
Both feedback and progression are aspects of a larger whole.
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They indeed were, they were indeed an entirely valid model that fitted the evidence that they then had. That is indeed why proto-scientists then modelled the solar system with epicycles.
But, as evidence improved it became harder to rig the epicycle model to keep it working, and with time Kepler’s models and then Newtonian gravity did a much better job of fitting all the data and, crucially, of predicting new things — that is being applicable to things they didn’t already know about.
So, when Uranus was discovered, applying Newtonian gravity to its orbit seemed to imply that there needed to be another perturbing planet. The location of this planet was predicted, and then it was looked for, and then found! It’s now called Neptune.
With time, discrepancies with Newtonian gravity began to pile up (e.g. precession of Mercury), and Einstein invented a new model of the Solar System that did a far better job with Mercury, and also with star locations during Solar eclipse.
Now, Einstein’s model could be used to predict the existence of weird things like black holes, and the existence of gravitational waves, and then predict what we’d see if two black holes collided.
Earlier this year, in a technological triumph, for the first time physicists detected the gravitational-wave signature of two colliding black holes a billion light years away — exactly, and in detail, as predicted by Einstein’s theory.
Which is why that theory is now preferred over epicycles. So yes, this is exactly how science makes progress, by iterating to better and better versions of what works.
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Hi Coel,
//Thus if we verify those claims then we’ve verified the scientific method as doing what it is claimed to do.//
= no one doubts that the scientific method gives us what it is designed to give us. apples fall. planes fly. on the basis of this or that law, for whose discovery – again – you see the scientific method.
but how do you propose to test the method itself? how do you propose to see if it works? but how can you do that unless you presuppose the validity of the scientific method, the method that tells us to accept x only if x works?
i hope you see the reasoning here. the only way to empirically reject the scientific method is by assuming the validity of the method itself, and using this as a ground for rejecting it. somewhat reminiscent of the snake that eats its own tail.
//For example, a non-uniformitarian idea is that, early on in the solar-system’s history, a large planet hit the new-born Earth, and the resulting debris formed the Moon. We can then test such ideas through analysing the compositions of Moon rock, etc. //
= you are confusing between what Gould says are “methodological assumptions” and “substantive hypothesis” of uniformitarianism.
your analysis of the compositions of moon rocks and others are however based on other accepted principles of science themselves, are they not? for example, on the decay rate of protons? so how do you know particles decay at this rate a billion years ago?
//But we can *see* how things were in the past by simply observing light from distant galaxies that was emitted long in the past.//
= oh yes, on the assumption of uniformitarianism. we assume that light is constant throughout space AND TIME, then use this assumption to extrapolate how things must be in the past.
in fact, our inference that “light comes from distant galaxies” itself harbors a host of assumptions: that the velocity of light is invariant when it comes from x source, that gravity which is known to behave this way in this or that condition must also behaves that way in that source so the deflection of light can be interpreted in this manner, that the telescope through which we observe red and other shifts are just as accurate for observing objects far far away, that the inferences we draw from the phenomenon of red shifts which hold here, must have hold in the distant galaxy, so our inference holds, so on and so forth.
the most basic import of uniformitarianism is not so much that this or that law, process or rate holds across all space and time, but more so that even when these rates and processes are said to change across time, they are said to do so ONLY ON THE BASIS OF OTHER RATES AND PROCESSES WHICH FOR THE RELEVANT PURPOSES ARE ASSUMED TO BE APPLICABLE ACROSS ALL SPACETIMES …
// We can always then ask, ok, is *that* law constant, or is *that* half-life changing?//
= yes we can. welcome to the halls of philosophy 🙂
// any part of the edifice can be questioned and examined. If the assumptions make science work better then that verifies them. //
= agreed. just with a critical difference. any part of the EMPIRICAL (that is, the visible) edifice can be examined. but the scientific method is inbuilt into the structure itself, is not part of the empirical itself but is what helps us identify what is empirical and what not. to throw away the scientific method is to destroy the edifice altogether, so if you build another structure without the scientific method, you are no longer erecting science. whatever it may be, it is no longer science.
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No, I don’t see the circularity.
It seems straight forward to test the hypothesis that testing hypothesis works (I’ve stripped out ‘science’ and made the apparent circularity more evident).
Does testing the hypotheses that this or that drug kills bacteria result in drugs that kill bacteria?
The hypothesis ‘hypothsis testing works’ is a different hypothesis than the the hypothesis ‘this stuff kills bugs.’
Can I test the hypotheisi that that testing the hypothesis ‘this stuff kills bugs’ works (finds drugs that kill bugs)? Yes
In the case of some drug companies using bogus statistical methods the answer to ‘does if their hypothsis testing work’ is NO!
Popper would be happy
Of course, you can argue that such companies are not doing real hypothesis testing, but just phishing for crap they can sell to us and the FDA. That gets a bit circular and semantic.
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Haulianlal,
I’ve stirred up some controversy previously, by questioning the cosmological current model in particular and the Mathematical universe hypothesis in general, to get too deeply into that.
“But the scientific method is the absolute foundation of science because the method is how modern science gets defined in the first place!”
Which goes to my initial point, the Catch 22 of how the frame/question defines the answer. Necessarily we create knowledge by distilling signal from the noise and the assumption becomes it is all just unprocessed signal, yet that only emerges reductionistically. Holistically there is no ultimate frame and all knowledge has to be subjectively framed, otherwise we have to assume a God’s eye view. So there is no order without processing. Events have to occur, in order to be determined.
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Well that’s the PR problem. People even Physicist will judge a book by its cover or its title anyway.
Actually the cover of ‘Against Method’ is quite nice. I didn’t want to spring for 15 bucks to get it though. The title put me off!
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the dogma we should be scared of is the self-refuting thesis of scientism – the belief that the scientific method is the only method for discovering and understanding reality, in toto …
I agree with that one. It’s one of the places where strict positivism failed.
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Synred,
// It seems straight forward to test the hypothesis that testing hypothesis works (I’ve stripped out ‘science’ and made the apparent circularity more evident).//
let me put it this way. you test hypothesis WITHIN the scientific method, but not the scientific method itself, because the method is what you assume in order to test hypothesis.
your examples are largely irrelevant, as they are all within the framework of the scientific method itself. it says nothing about the method.
let me put it this way. suppose you test the scientific method, and you see that it does not work (whatever that means). but how do you determine it does not work? why, using the scientific method itself! no other way to empirically determine whether the scientific method is valid or not without first presuming its validity, then using the method itself. because the only way you can empirically accept (even reject) the scientific method is by the use of the scientific method itself.
i think perhaps the better tack will be if you can imagine an empirical situation where the scientific method maybe tested. then we will analyze that 🙂
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