Time to get started with a new book! This time it’s going to be Harry Frankfurt’s On Inequality, an obviously current topic. Frankfurt, of course, is the author of a number of well received, often slim and incisive, books, most famously On Bullshit, where he clarifies, among other things, the distinction between a liar (one who knows the truth, and uses it to effectively deceive others) and a bullshitter (one who uses a chaotic mix of truths, half truths and lies in order to get whatever he wants — the current President of the United States arguably being the archetypal example).
Frankfurt divides On Inequality into two parts: economic equality as a moral ideal, and equality and respect. I will discuss the first part here and the second one in my next post.
The discussion of economic equality as a moral ideal begins with Frankfurt’s statement that the most fundamental social challenge in the United States today is not that people’s incomes are widely unequal, but that too many people are poor. In order to begin to back up this notion, he points out that, after all, we wouldn’t want to eliminate income inequality by making everyone poor. Frankfurt immediately acknowledges that there is a number of people in the US that have far more than is necessary to flourish, and whom he says are guilty of “economic gluttony.” Economic gluttony is a “ridiculous and disgusting spectacle,” but reduction in inequality would be a side effect of combating both poverty and economic gluttony, and should not be a primary goal in itself.
One of the reasons we need to rein in economic gluttony, argues Frankfurt, is that it carries a number of potentially anti-democratic effects, as when few very wealthy people essentially control political power through their money and influence. But, Frankfurt argues, many people seem to think that economic inequality is inherently morally problematic, a position that he regards as highly questionable. As he puts it:
“From the point of view of morality, it is not important that everyone should have the same. What is morally important is that each should have enough.” (p. 6)
Frankfurt writes that being preoccupied with how much money other people have is alienating, in the sense that such preoccupation distracts us from reflecting on what is it that makes our own life worth living, and therefore from which focusing on the resources we actually need to pursue such a life. The result is that:
“The doctrine of equality contributes to the moral disorientation and shallowness of our time.” (p. 14)
The chapter proceeds by considering a number of arguments often being made in support of the idea that inequality is undesirable. Frankfurt discusses several of these, aiming to show that economic equality only has value in a derivative manner, not per se. This strikes me as correct, but I also wonder who would, in fact, argue for an intrinsic moral worth — i.e., regardless of consequences — of equality.
One such example is based on the principle of diminishing marginal utility. The idea is that more economic equality maximizes aggregate utility, i.e. the aggregate satisfactions of members of society. This, in turn, derives from the rather hard to doubt notion that a marginal dollar brings less utility to someone who is already rich than to someone less wealthy.
But, Frankfurt counters, the demand for some kinds of goods will increase as a result of redistribution of wealth, because more people will want those goods, driving the corresponding prices higher. The outcome will be that any progress made by the most poor will be offset by a decreasing purchasing power of the middle class, thus — on average — nullifying the benefit of wealth redistribution.
Well, maybe. To begin with, it is not clear to me why one wouldn’t also see a countering effect due to the fact that at least some of the goods that come to be in large demand will be more efficiently produced, at increasingly lower costs. Moreover, this sort of conclusion cannot be reached simply on the basis of a qualitative argument. Detailed quantitative simulations, ideally backed up by empirical evidence gathered in the field, are necessary.
A bit later on (section IV of the first part), Frankfurt engages in one of those philosophical thought experiments which I increasingly think miss the point, and may arguably be misleading. He invites us to imagine an hypothetical situation where there is a limited number of resources, so that some, but not all members of a given population will survive. It is easy to contrive the numbers in such a way that forcing people to share equally — thus eliminating inequality — will result in everyone’s death. This is supposed to show that equality is not an inherent moral good.
No kidding, I would respond. First, again, I doubt anyone has sensibly suggested that equality is good per se (Frankfurt nowhere in the book provides direct evidence to back up this claim). Second — and most importantly — yes, in the highly artificial situation imagined by Frankfurt it would be grotesque to insist on equality. But no modern society is even close to being in such a situation, rendering the whole thought experiment rather silly.
In section V Frankfurt rejects what he sees as the widespread moral intuition that inequality is objectionable in itself, and suggests that what people find problematic is, again, that fact that some have to little:
“Mere differences in the amounts of money people have are not in themselves distressing. We tend to be quite unmoved, after all, by inequalities between those who are very well-to-do and those who are extremely rich.” (p. 41)
The underlying idea here is that the two doctrines of sufficiency and equality are logically independent, and that one cannot simply deploy arguments in favor of one as if they were pertinent to the other. Frankfurt goes so far as accusing egalitarians of hypocrisy, pointing out that many are quite happy to accept large incomes that are not justified on the basis of their own theories. This, again, is what happens when one confuses sufficiency (which truly is desirable) with equality (which is not, except in terms of certain indirect consequences, such as disproportionate political influence).
The flip side of the coin when it comes to the “hypocritical” egalitarians actually reinforces Frankfurt’s point: these same people don’t seem bothered by the fact that others make a lot more money, so long as they make enough to be reasonably free to pursue their own goals. I certainly count myself in the latter group: I don’t care, per se, how much more money some people make compared to me, because I’m lucky enough to be able to live the kind of life I want to live. That freedom of mine, however, does not obtain for a lot of people who make less than I do. But here Frankfurt strikes me as being right: the situation of these people is problematic not because they make less than others, but because they do not make enough. Insufficiency, not inequality, is the problem.
Frankfurt is careful (p. 25) to stress that “having enough” does not just mean enough to survive, or to live a tolerable life. That, for human beings in modern societies, is not, in fact, enough. “Enough” means an amount of wealth sufficient to pursue the kind of goals one is interested in pursuing. In my case, for instance, living in a large cosmopolitan city, enjoying at least some of its offerings, and being able to devote much of my time to reading and writing.
Moreover, “enough” also doesn’t mean that the person in question couldn’t benefit from, or would not welcome, additional income. When the State of New York finally renewed its teachers’ contract (after five years of stalling), I got a significantly larger paycheck. I did not need it in order to live the life I want to live, but it was welcome nonetheless. The point, as Frankfurt articulates it, is that I did not have an “active interest” in getting a higher salary. When I got it, it was a nice bonus, which allows me to do a few more things. But I was not preoccupied in the least by the missing money (as much as it was ethically and legally due to me by the State of New York).
It was refreshing to see that Frankfurt — going against what I will call the Wall Street ethos, for lack of a better term — doesn’t think there is anything wrong with people who take my attitude toward money:
“There are quite reasonable people who feel that their lives are good enough, and that it is not important to them whether their lives are as good as possible. The fact that a person lacks an active interest in getting something does not mean, of course, that he prefers not to have it.” (p. 55)
In a sense, says Frankfurt, the situation is similar to a man who is deeply in love with a woman and is happy about his relationship. It would be perverse to criticize him on the ground that, if he really tried, he could do “better,” quite regardless of the fact that there obviously isn’t a single measure of “better” out there, and of the even more obvious fact that the amount of money in one’s bank account certainly is no such measure.
This leads us to the end of the first part of On Inequality. In the next post of this series I will tackle what Frankfurt has to say about the relationship between equality and respect.

In addition to the argument from undue political influence, and the argument from aggregate utility, there is a further argument in favour of a high degree of equality based on externalities. Massive resources go towards servicing the interests of the rich. This pushes up costs for the rest of us, when it comes, for example, to hiring a good lawyer. It also diverts major talent towards servicing the interests of the rich; consider the concentration of talent in the financial advice industry. Consider also the cost of housing, especially in big cities. This kind of inequality can bear particularly heavily on the poor; where most people have cars, public transport suffers, unless active steps are taken to prevent this.
One petty example; airlines and airports offering priority in boarding and in security screening for those willing to pay an extra fee. For a given level of supply of services, this advantage comes directly at the expense of the rest of us. There is even a perverse incentive to suppliers to reduce the quality of their baseline service, in order to make the premium service more attractive.
In short, the existence of inequality may make it intrinsically more difficult to obtain sufficiency. You’re probably familiar with Wilson and Pickett’s The Spirit Level, which argues, using comparative international data, that greater inequality reduces well-being even for many of its beneficiaries.
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I got the book. Haven’t decided to read it for sure.
George Will likes it so that a point against it. I doubt that there are many, if any, liberals that want to produce literal equality, so he may be beating a straw horse.
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So he is accusing “egalitarians” of hypocrisy. Trouble is no such class exist.
The problem is indeed too much poverty, but also the rich use their wealth to avoid paying their share.
When you have enough to live pleasantly and do what you like, that’s nice. When you have so much you can buy politicians that’s too much. It’s a question of power not wealth as such.
Same with corporations. There are economies of scale and up to a point bigger is better. But when a corporation gets so big that it ‘owns’ the government, that is too big. It needs to be broken up, even at the cost of some inefficiency.
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I think Paul makes a good point – and seeing Frankfurt through this point, one detects a certain simplification of the issues on Frankfurt’s part. I haven’t yet read him, but there do seem to be complications which he doesn’t address.
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Synred,
“I doubt that there are many, if any, liberals that want to produce literal equality, so he may be beating a straw horse.”
But that isn’t Frankfurt’s point. The issue, rather, is that liberals — according to him — keep barking up the wrong tree by insisting on inequality as inherently immoral, while the real problems lie elsewhere. Indeed, he might turn around your criticism and argue that precisely because inequality will never be eradicated the current approach is noth ethically and practically misguided.
Ej,
“there do seem to be complications which he doesn’t address”
As always, I caution against hasty generalizations based on my posts. I try to do my best to represent the author’s opinions fairly, but these are crude summaries, not a substitute for actually reading the book, if one finds the topic interesting enough.
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I too agree with Paul. In addition, greater income inequality on the corporate income side allows for greater regulatory capture by larger corporations.
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He does address or at least acknowledge most of my concerns in the preface which has convinced me to continue reading a bit. Also, it’s well written (says the master of the stupid typo).
I suspect I will not agree with him. If you view it terms of barter, the rich hog a lot and I don’t see that they earned it or have any ‘natural’ right to it.
Frankfurt does use rather absolute language about people who want to ‘eliminate’ inequality.
In first chapter he juxtaposes an Obama speech about inequality being too big, with a following discussion about the miss guided notion that inequality should be eliminated. Obama doesn’t think that though reading those paragraph’s in succession might cause you to think he does. No wonder George Will likes it.
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Massimo,
By your description it is as if Frankfurt focusses on economic (in)equality, but there more to equality than that: cultural, political and educational equality etc. They are related to economic equality of course, but not completely. Two examples: feminism and communism. Feminism was as much about economic equality as about the right to vote and the right to decide if and when women wanted to get pregnant. I recently met a woman who lived in East-Germany before 1989. She described a society in which people were economically very equal (but not poor, western propaganda notwithstanding) but in which most people where alienated from political participation.
Economic equality may not be a moral ideal, but I think that striving to give people the cultural, political and educational equality they need to fully participate in society as citizens, is morally good.
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Paul B:
If it quacks like trickle down, it might be trickle down…
I didn’t not find the 1st two paragraphs of the book encouraging, but that is all the further I’ve gotten so far. They are chock-a-block with straw.
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I think the problems are at the extremes of income inequality–too little and too much. It seems to me that a range of incomes is an acceptable compromise and can be put into practise. ( e.g. 20k to 20mil ). It also fits with the traditions and institutions of the US where George Washington freed his slaves at his death up to the progressive taxation of FDR.
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Progressive tax goes back well before FDR:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax
In US only:
In the United States, the first progressive income tax was established by the Revenue Act of 1862. The act was signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln, and replaced the Revenue Act of 1861, which had imposed a flat income tax of 3% on incomes above $800. The Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, adopted in 1913, permitted Congress to levy all income taxes without any apportionment requirement. By the mid-20th century, most countries had implemented some form of progressive income tax.[22]
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Massimo writes, paraphrasing Frankfurt,
“we wouldn’t want to eliminate income inequality by making everyone poor”
I understand why Frankfurt feels the need to establish that it’s not equality per se that is desirable, but rather its derivative effects. In my own experience, I have met many people who insist that equality is the ultimate desideratum. These people have said to me that it would be better than what we have today if everyone was poor on the condition they be equally poor.
So there certainly are “true egalitarians” out there, and I don’t believe Frankfurt will be able to persuade them, since they seem willing to bite the bullet and accept poverty as a consequence of equality.
I should note that these people I’m talking about are heavy invested in leftist politics or Marxist/Feminist theory. They are also friends and family of mine, and not random people on the street. And I’m also saying this as a leftist myself.
Regardless, it was a good write-up, and I agree with pretty much everything in it. Looking forward to future instalments.
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Thanks Synred, Please change FDR to Lincoln. Modern examples might be environmental laws limiting corporations
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So how does Frankfurt define economic inequality? After all, income inequality is very different from wealth inequality. Even if you decided both require a moral response, it doesn’t have to be identical. I suppose you could even argue that income inequality is a good thing but wealth inequality is not.
‘In order to begin to back up this notion, he points out that, after all, we wouldn’t want to eliminate income inequality by making everyone poor.’
So how does he justify this strawman? After all, prices aren’t set by God and should adjust to changes in the money supply by the typical mechanisms of deflation/inflation. In fact, in a closed economy, if everyone has $1 or $1000000 in their bank accounts, no one can be said to be rich nor poor as these are relative terms.
‘He invites us to imagine an hypothetical situation where there is a limited number of resources, so that some, but not all members of a given population will survive.’
Does he suggest a solution for this, or does he think it’s ok that the wealthy live and the poor die? I mean, in such an extreme situation you may not want total equality but you surely must perform some kind of fair redistribution. For example, helping the young survive at the expense of the old.
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Sounds like Repub health care plan in nutshell </;-(
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Socratic,
“greater income inequality on the corporate income side allows for greater regulatory capture by larger corporations.”
Right, and Frankfurt wouldn’t disagree. But then the moral issue isn’t with inequality per se, it is with unfair access to the law by corporations. Clearly a different target for social reform and legislative action.
Couvent,
“but there more to equality than that: cultural, political and educational equality etc. They are related to economic equality of course, but not completely”
He focuses on economic inequality, partly, I assume, because nobody argues out loud for greater discrimination against women, minorities, and so forth. But people do argue in favor of reducing economic inequality for its own sake.
Bunsen,
You know, I don’t find your aggressive tone, especially, I presume, since you didn’t read the book, particularly useful. I mean, what the hell? Are we having a discussion about the potential merits of an idea, of are we shooting at targets we haven’t bothered to check because we feel too good on our own high moral ground? So, no, I’m not going to answer your questions. Read the damn book.
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.>But people do argue in favor of reducing economic inequality for its own sake
–>Not many people. Not mere liberals. Maybe the odd Maoist.
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow
https://goo.gl/JSNrKX
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Why does this argument seem muddled and ineffectual?
In the pyramid of human society, the economy is foundational. Food and shelter come before politics, culture and religion, so understanding economic facts and potentially addressing issues works better from a basic, bottom up, physically emergent approach, than castigating it for the moral inadequacies that emerge.
Finance and money are a circulation mechanism, like roads and vehicles. If we first understand how the system functions, then we might better address its malfunctions, rather than just adding another layer of patches, like taxes and redistribution, that only create more problems then they solve.
Money is not a commodity that can be mined, or manufactured, like gold, or bitcoin. It is a contract. The asset value is necessarily backed by a debt, otherwise it is just speculation.
There was a time when societies were small enough to function as single social units and value was distributed reciprocally, but as they grew, accounting methods evolved. Look up Michael Hudson for some history on it.
Which is where money comes in. The problem in our binary society, where everything is either public, or private, is this medium is somewhere in the middle.
Since political power comes from motivating the people and acquiring more such economic tokens is a powerful motivator, there is a strong tendency to inflate publicly managed systems.
While the motivation for private money management is to acquire as much wealth as possible, the tendency then becomes to exploit every aspect of society and the environment, in order to produce notational value, then siphon off the majority of the excess. Capitalism is the efficient allocation of wealth, but its end goal is simply to produce more national value, not a healthy society.
This has been quite productive over the course of the last few hundred years, as western civilization has expanded both geographically and technologically, but lately this progress has been sustained by a great deal of debt and excessively wasted resources.
There are possible ways to address this, such as a public banking system (http://www.publicbankinginstitute.org), but it is probably safe to say that since those with any power to actually change anything, are the ones most satisfied with how it is, that nothing will happen, until the bubble of exponentially compounding debt can no longer be sustained.
At which point, most of the notational savings of the middle class baby boomers will vanish into thin air and those supposedly investing it will vanish into various international safe havens.
As a circulation mechanism, the body provides a useful analogy. What we have today would be as if the head and heart told the hands and feet they didn’t need quite so much blood and should work harder for what they do get. Can anyone here imagine what would be the result? Not only to the hands and feet, but the head and heart, if they tried to hold too much blood and stop it from circulating? It would be similar to what is happening to our society. (Think Trump.)
We can’t store money. If people pull it from circulation, even just to put under the mattress, then ever more has to be added, to keep the economy functioning. Until eventually so much is stored that it starts to leak out and loose value. At which point everyone starts to dump it and the system crashes. We, rich and poor, need to understand that money really is a public contract. We no more own what is in our pockets, then we own the section of road we are on. Just try printing some up and see who holds the copyright.
In the body, the store of energy is fat, not blood. The body can’t store fat in the circulation system.
We mostly all save for the same general purposes, from housing and healthcare, to raising children and retirement. If we invested directly in these services, as communal functions, rather than trying to save for them individually, not only would it force us to work together more and have less atomized societies, but it would reduce the enormous power given to the banking system and those who do become enormously wealthy and powerful off providing us with these individualized economic umbilical cords.
That is how to both reduce inequality and provide for the larger society.
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Wealth vs. income?
https://goo.gl/ajNSdW
“It’s so hard to find one rich man in 10 with a satisfied mind”
–>Sounds like pretty good odds to me. What is it for the poor?
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>From the point of view of morality, it is not important that everyone should have the same. What is morally important is that each should have enough. If everyone had enough money, it would be of no special or deliberate concern whether some people had more money than others.
Frankfurt, Harry G.. On Inequality (p. 7). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.
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The fact that economic equality is not in its own right a morally compelling social ideal is in no way, of course, a reason for regarding it as being, in all contexts, an unimportant or an inappropriate goal. Indeed, economic equality may have very significant political or social value. There may be quite good reasons to deal according to an egalitarian standard with problems having to do with the distribution of money. Hence it may at times make sense to be more immediately concerned with attempting to increase the extent of economic equality than with trying to regulate the extent to which everyone has enough money.
Frankfurt, Harry G.. On Inequality (pp. 7-8). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.
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I don’t know how explicitly Frankfurt gets there, but, in part, the idea is opportunity. Unfortunately, “opportunity” has become a blather word among modern American conservatives.
I think a basic income program is part of the solution. Not ALL of it, and not a libertarian version of it. But, part of the solution: http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2017/06/basicincome-one-tool-in-working-class.html
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Hi Massimo,
I would agree with Bjorn that there are true egalitarians out there who would seem to prefer a society where everyone is poor to a society were some are poor and some are rich.
My thinking on equality is more or less the same as yours and Frankfurt’s. Though you are no utilitarian, you seem to be guided here by something not altogether unlike the utilitarian impulse: that with regard to these questions what is most important is more or less something like having as much well-being and as little misery as possible throughout a society. That’s a pretty common human intuition and one I share.
But another very common human intuition is the desire for fairness, and some people feel that intuition more keenly than the utilitarian one. For some people, they may feel it so keenly that they would indeed prefer for everybody to die rather than for some to live at the expense of others.
However, if you want to say such people are actually wrong, then I wouldn’t agree with you. I would say they just have different moral preferences to you and I.
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Illuzzi’s review in The Review of Politics doi:10.1017/S0034670516000437
“In the end, the chief virtue of Frankfurt’s text, its brevity and freedom from the vast literature on egalitarianisms, becomes its chief albatross as it stubbornly refuses to address any of the strongest arguments and concerns egalitarianism offers…
For example, Dworkin’s resource auction famously distinguishes equal treatment from treatment as equals, with treatment as equals requiring that persons are not treated equally, but rather treated in accordance with
their rights, legitimate claims, and desert (Taking Rights Seriously, 1977). The application of Frankfurt’s critique to Sen’s capability approach would be even more problematic as Sen’s whole point is to take better account of the differences among people, as the conversion of primary goods into the capability to do various things that a person may value can vary enormously with differing inborn characteristics. Sen’s equality of capabilities is just one example of how egalitarians have advanced theories that embrace aspects of a person
’s particular character or circumstances that are relevant to the issue at hand”
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DM,
I actually don’t think Frankfurt’s reasoning is utilitarian at all. Indeed, under certain conditions utilitarian reasoning results precisely in the sort of “everyone’s poor” scenario he wants to avoid.
Also, as I stated in the past, virtue ethics does take into account the potential consequences of actions, it simply does not consider them the ultimate arbiter of moral decisions.
As for “intuitions,” no, I can’t say that people who prefer fairness to other criteria are “wrong,” since I’m not a moral realism. But I — and Frankfurt — can point out where their reasoning is faulty. After all, I am not an intuitionist in moral philosophy either, I don’t think intuitions trump everything. One has to be able to argue one’s position, based whenever possible also on pertinent empirical evidence.
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“I don’t think intuitions trump everything.” Agreed,as I think most of us would. But at the least, an intuition is worth examining. I feel intuitively that gross inequality is wrong. I can’t justify that, but suspect it’s because I see it as an obstacle to the broad sharing of sufficiency. That’s a factual judgment, not a moral one.
Conversely, I wonder how far what are presented as factual arguments in economics are really rationalisations for moral judgments; the belief, for example, that people need/ought/deserve to be “incentivized”.
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I think Frankfurter is wrong to reject this intuition. We see it at work in other primates, and it’s surely ev psych done right, and ethology done right, to see that being the stem of the same intuition in humans.
To riff on Hume, “is” does not necessarily mean “ought.” But, “is ≠ ought” can at times be invoked with too much facile ease, just as is “correlation does not mean causation,” where the “necessarily” often is not only left out, but run over.
Now, do bonobos or whatever other species we study practice perfect equality? No, but, they do strive for greater equality of results as well as greater equality of opportunity. And, per Massimo’s response to Paul and others, we do seem to have some empirical evidence.
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Oh, per Amazon reviews of the book, it appears many reviewers don’t know there are more than two parties in America. That said, they’ve helped further elucidate that I don’t think the main idea of the book is for me, and I don’t think that in terms of ethics, Frankfurt has a privileged philosophical stance to prove his thesis.
The LA Review of Books blurb does have one thing right — critiques of the current system need to be less bourgeois, and thus, less capitalistic.
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Without some appeal to moral intuition, moral arguments are interminable. There’s a reason why the strongest arguments against both Kantian deontology and Utilitarianism consist of appeals to pre-theoretic moral intuitions.
Furthermore, per W.D. Ross, it’s not at all clear that moral intuitions are ever really overridden and especially not by theoretical considerations. More commonly, one moral intuition is deferred in favor of another that is taken to be more pressing in a given situation.
For those who are interested, I actually just published a short essay on “The Right and the Good” over at EA.
https://theelectricagora.com/2017/09/22/course-notes-w-d-ross-the-right-and-the-good-ch-2/
I had also, earlier, published a piece entirely on the subject of the role of intuition in ethics:
https://theelectricagora.com/2015/09/21/intuition-and-morals/
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Hi Massimo,
I’m not trying to claim you or Frankfurt as a utilitarian — I’m just not seeing much difference in how you analyse this specific question and how a utilitarian would. That’s not to say there is no difference — a utilitarian presumably values utility over and above “active interest” whereas Frankfurt does not (much, anyway), but that strikes me as a subtle point.
The point is that this is also the scenario that utilitarians want to avoid above all else. If you or he have a problem with the reasoning of some naive utilitarians and if you can justify it in terms of how it would lead to this scenario, then any reasonable utilitarian ought to agree with you (I would anyway). So you ought not to be much at odds with reasonable utilitarians on this specific question.
If you’re saying their reasoning is faulty just because they value fairness above all else, then I wouldn’t agree.
I think you have to base any moral reasoning on some sort of premise or preference, and strict egalitarians may simply be working from a different premise. That’s not to say that no egalitarian is engaging in faulty reasoning — presumably there are some who have not fully considered the implications of their views. My point is that it is not the case that all strict egalitarians are necessarily engaging in faulty reasoning.
I have the intuition that it is morally right to promote well-being and morally wrong to promote suffering. That’s just how I think of morality — meaning essentially it’s how I define morality. But claims as to whether policy X or policy Y better promote well-being are of course open to empirical evidence. So of course I’m not saying that intuitions trump everything, but intuitions must provide the fundamental basis by which you morally evaluate the empirical evidence. Someone who prefers that everyone suffer as long as they are suffering equally is not in my view expressing a view which is incompatible with rationality or with the empirical evidence, they are simply expressing a preference which I find bizarre.
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