Book Club: On Inequality 2, Equality and respect

We have seen last time that Harry Frankfurt advances a number of critiques of the commonly accepted idea that inequality is morally objectionable per se, as opposed to being objectionable for derivative reasons (e.g., because accumulation of wealth in the hands of few leads to undue influence in terms of political power). I now turn to the second (much shorter) part of his On Inequality, which discusses the relationship between equality and respect.

Frankfurt begins by stating that his analysis is compatible with a range of social policies and political viewpoints, i.e., it is neither limited to a left-leaning agenda nor opposed to it; and by rejecting the presumption that egalitarianism is an ideal of intrinsic moral importance, even though he personally supports a number of policies aimed at reducing inequality (for reasons other than the intrinsic immorality of the latter).

His claim, then, is that the moral appeal of economic egalitarianism is an illusion, since:

“Whenever it is morally important to strive for equality, it is always because doing so will promote some other value rather than because equality itself is morally desirable.” (p. 66)

Frankfurt takes on Thomas Nagel’s famous question: “How could it not be an evil that some people’s life prospects at birth are radically inferior to others’?” and responds that, empirically, it appears to be the case that inequality is compatible with having quite a bit, and that doing less well than others does not, in fact, entail doing badly.

As I argued in the course of the discussion following the first post on this book, Frankfurt is surely right if we are talking about modest discrepancies in wealth. The fact that there are some millionaires in New York City in no way implies that my life as a non-millionaire is bad, or that I am in no position to pursue my own projects and live a fulfilling life. Nor is anything of the sort implied for some people that are a little less wealthy than I am. Of course, if someone is truly poor (and that is, indeed, the case for many in the Big Apple) then those people’s ability to live a good life is seriously hampered. But that poses no problem for Frankfurt’s position, since the issue is that such people simply do not have enough, not that they have less.

But what about those, also to be found in good numbers in New York, who have so much more than is necessary even for a very comfortable life, and that frequently use their wealth to gain unfair access to the levers of power? There, Frankfurt argues, the issue — again — isn’t inequality per se, but rather the lack, or the non enforcement of laws that block the coupling between wealth and political power. The fact that these two are empirically correlated and often causally connected is not a logical necessity, says Frankfurt. Indeed, his point is that by focusing on inequality per se we miss the real problem, which is, for instance, the corruption of the political system. But despite Frankfurt’s claim that his approach does not prescribe any specific social or political reform, it actually does, since it shifts our focus from one kind of intervention (directly on inequality) to another (on corruption, or other undesirable empirical correlates of inequality).

Frankfurt again seeks to shift the attention of moral philosophers and people concerned with social justice:

“Surely what is of genuine moral concern is not formal but substantive. It is whether people have good lives, and not how their lives compare with the lives of others. … What makes it an evil that certain people have bad lives is not that some other people have better lives. The evil lies simply in the conspicuous fact that bad lives are bad.” (p. 71-73)

Frankfurt asks us to consider what is important when we consider a person’s concern for her rights, respect, and consideration. Enjoying certain rights, or being treated with consideration and respect, have inherently nothing to do with how much more or less wealthy one is compared to others, because rights, respect, etc. are accorded to members of the human society qua human beings, not in proportion to their wealth — at the least in theory.

That latter point needs a bit of commentary. Frankfurt is not being naive here, I am guessing. He is not saying that, as a matter of fact, people enjoy the same rights and respect. That is patently empirically false. But it is also obviously true that we live in a society bound by laws, and more broadly a Constitution, that is designed to apply equally to people regardless of their race, gender, religion, and socio-economic status. That in and of itself makes Frankfurt’s point that inequality is logically distinct from other social issues having to do with injustice and unfair treatment.

Consider an analogy with the ongoing issue of police brutality against minorities, and blacks in particular. When people claim that the problem is not limited to individual policemen who may be racists, but is “systemic,” what do they mean, exactly? If they mean that police departments across the country tend to be characterized (with due exceptions ) by a culture of implicit or explicit racism, and that it is this culture that results in the disproportionate killing of black men, they are probably correct. But if they mean that the laws of this country are inherently racist, then that is obviously false. We are very clearly, very explicitly, all equal under the law. Recognizing this distinction — which is analogous to the one Frankfurt seeks to draw between inequality per se and undesirable empirical correlates of inequality — leads to very different types of actions: in one case one should seek to reform police departments, in the other case to change the law of the land. They are not at all the same thing.

A bit later on Frankfurt makes another distinction that is worth pondering:

“It is easy to confuse being treated with … respect … with being treated equally. However, the two are not the same. I believe that the widespread tendency to exaggerate the moral importance of egalitarianism is due, at least in part, to a misunderstanding of the relationship between treating people equally and treating them with respect.” (p. 76)

A simple example: I make a concerted effort to treat my students with respect, qua human beings. But they are certainly not my equals (I’m the teacher, they are the students), nor are they equal to each other in all pertinent respects, as some of them are smarter, have better background knowledge, or try harder than others. Some of my students may need to be treated differently precisely because they have different needs. But they all ought to be treated with the same respect.

Frankfurt quotes Isaiah Berlin, one of the defenders of the idea that equality should be the default moral position: “The assumption is that equality needs no reasons, only inequality does so. … If I have a cake and there are ten persons among whom I wish to divide it, then if I give exactly one tenth to each, this will not, at any rate automatically, call for justification; whereas if I depart from this principle of equal division I am expected to produce a special reason.”

This, Frankfurt comments, is surely right, but only because in the hypothetical case imagined by Berlin we have no knowledge whatsoever of the people involved, their needs, and their differences. Under such conditions of total lack of information (what John Rawls’ famous called a “veil of ignorance”) equality and respect coincide. But, argues Frankfurt, this is a happenstance, not a logical necessity, “for the only characteristics of each person that are relevant [in this case] — to wit, simply those that constitute his humanity — are necessarily shared by every other human being. Therefore, the criteria of impartiality and of equality must inescapably yield, in this case, the same result.” (p. 82) But, crucially, only in this case.

Frankfurt is perfectly aware that being ignored, discounted, or not taken seriously is disturbing and has real consequences. But he insists that demands for respect should be based on the realities of a person’s own conditions, and especially on her status as a human being, and not simply on the amount of wealth that she happens, or does not happen, to have. Which means that, even in terms of respect, the issue isn’t equality per se, but a recognition of the worth and dignity of being human.

_____

Heads up: our next book club series will focus on a completely different topic and discipline. We will tackle my colleague Kevin Laland’s Darwin’s Unfinished Symphony: How Culture Made the Human Mind. Stay tuned.

102 thoughts on “Book Club: On Inequality 2, Equality and respect

  1. brodix

    Bunsen,

    That’s why I think the conversation has to start at a much deeper level than economics and finance. By and large economists understand money has to be kept in circulation. The wealthy and powerful understand how the system works and know the feedback works in their favor. Yet they still function in a foundationally linear reality of piling up infinite wealth as an end in itself and where everyone else thinks maximum money is a maximum good.
    Yet if there was a philosophical foundation of circularity, so that extreme wealth was simply another form of extreme, with its inevitable blowback, than siphoning all value out of the very system which supports that wealth in the first place would be understood as the stupidity that it is.
    It is like cheating on the foundation of a skyscraper in order to put more gold fixtures in the penthouse.
    Where are the bankers going to be, when the monetary system blows up? The two poles of social control are hope and fear, with money as quantized hope. So when the bubble bursts, the needle swings to the other extreme, to fear. So the generals will be in charge and likely find it useful to use a few bankers as pinatas to placate the masses. Blowback.
    As this conversation shows, trying to dig down into those sorts of realities, through stressful social discussions, like economics, only stirs up more heat than light.
    That is why I think it will be more useful to approach this as an abstract philosophical and or scientific debate and then explore the social and economic ramifications as a secondary issue. Basically lay the foundations first. Otherwise the powers that be will make sure it gets drowned in the tub.

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  2. Massimo Post author

    Synred,

    I agree with all your recommendations, but they are still going to implement through changes the laws. Which makes the point that we need to think about doable, as well as just, interventions.

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  3. synred

    about doable, as well as just, interventions.

    Yes, ‘doable’ is the problem. As long as the rich own the legislatures, its going to be hard or impossible to change the laws that let them buy the legislatures.

    For this I have no solution…

    What needs to be done is reasonably clear; how to do it is not at all clear…

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  4. ejwinner

    Massimo,
    While there may be some here who do not recognize the difference between logical relation and causal relation, there are others here who simply don’t care. This goes back to my first comment. No one practically doubts the logic of Frankfurt’s argument (as you present it here). But it is not a new argument; and only the fanatics of the French Revolution, and certain extreme communists (who have not read Marx carefully) would disagree with it. But okay, so what? What does Frankfurt bring new to the table?

    Is Frankfurt naive? Well, to be generous, he seems to lack a sense of history (as his book On Bullshit lacked reading in texts of rhetoric and studies in propaganda). And if some of us worry his text will be appropriated by the alt-right, it’s is partly because the alt-right feeds on the historically uninformed, on simplifications of difficult issues, and on reduction of argumentation to the seeming ‘common sense’ of (enthymemic) ‘pure logic.

    Having gone too far in my dismissal of Frankfurt last night, I’m of a mind to cut him considerable slack now. But there’s no reasonable or intellectually ethical way to treat the shallow as if it has any depth, when it hasn’t.

    But I’ll hold to a main point here: Frankfurt’s argument is some 300 years old. What’s new?

    Liked by 1 person

  5. brodix

    Massimo,
    Which gets to timing. Like after the bubble pops, the”punctuation” sets in.
    The greater the crisis, the greater the opportunity for change. The question is knowing what direction to take and preparing for it. As chaotic as things seem now, it might well be we are still not that close to the real edge.

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  6. Bunsen Burner

    ‘That’s cute, but if not by changing the law how, exactly, are we going to improve things?’

    Who is this we? The people who create and change laws are a very small and select group. Nearly always vastly over-represented by the wealthy. The point of the quote is to expose the pernicious myth of equality under the law. The institutions that create and maintain the laws have systemic biases designed to work against those with limited resources. This isn’t a bug in the system, it’s a feature:

    ‘Those who own the country ought to govern it.’

    John Jay (first chief justice of the SCOTUS)

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Bunsen Burner

    Brodix:

    Mostly agree with you overall, however, I don’t view this discussion as philosophical or economic, but political. Ultimately, it’s about who gets to make certain decisions and why. Economic inequality is just a symptom of that decision making. Economic relations are determined by the power structures we are embedded in, they have no meaning outside those structures. For example, consider a Star Trek world. When everyone can have whatever they want, economic inequality doesn’t become a good thing, it simply ceases to make any sense.

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  8. Massimo Post author

    Ej,

    So who, exactly, published a book, 300 years ago, arguing for the logical independence of inequality from other morally salient issues, as well as for the the idea that inequality per se is not unethical?

    Moreover, Frankfurt is reacting to a number of people on the left who are, in fact, vociferously arguing that inequality is, per se, immoral. Apparently those people also haven’t read whoever you are referring to from three centuries back.

    “The demand for ‘equality’ has always been rhetorical and political, it has never been ‘logical.’”

    That, again, misses Frankfurt’s point. He is not arguing that the demand for equality is logical (or not), whatever that means. He is arguing that it is logically decoupled from other societal factors, and that these factors, and not inequality, are immoral.

    I also pointed out, several times, that there are real consequences to shifting the focus from one socio-economic variable to another, even when the two are correlated. It is going to be politically impossible, in the US, to eliminate or greatly reduce inequality, because Americans have bought their own cool-aid (they call it their “dream”) about wealth. That’s why even the middle class and the poor oppose increasing taxes on the wealthy.

    But it may be possible to rally people around legislation aimed at reducing corruption, the influence of money in politics, and so forth. Shifting the focus that way is both the result of a pragmatic analysis (along the lines of what I just wrote) and of realizing that the morally salient issue is not inequality, per se.

    Bunsen,

    “The institutions that create and maintain the laws have systemic biases designed to work against those with limited resources. This isn’t a bug in the system, it’s a feature”

    No, it isn’t. There is nothing in the Constitution that does that. If and where there are individual laws that systematically discriminate those are to be targeted and repealed. That’s the way toward progress, as it has been throughout the history of the US.

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  9. saphsin

    Massimo

    “I also pointed out, several times, that there are real consequences to shifting the focus from one socio-economic variable to another, even when the two are correlated. It is going to be politically impossible, in the US, to eliminate or greatly reduce inequality, because Americans have bought their own cool-aid (they call it their “dream”) about wealth. That’s why even the middle class and the poor oppose increasing taxes on the wealthy.”

    Since it doesn’t seem productive anymore to continue the philosophical discussion, I might as well point out empirical errors. No that is not true at all. (I know that you don’t mean everyone among the poor and middle class, but a general drive towards those types of thoughts)

    “Six in 10 Americans continue to believe that upper-income Americans pay too little in taxes. This attitude has been steady over the past five years, but is lower than in the early 1990s, when as many as 77% said those with higher incomes paid too little in taxes.”

    http://news.gallup.com/poll/190775/americans-say-upper-income-pay-little-taxes.aspx

    And to go beyond just merely taxes:

    “A clear majority of Americans agree that money and wealth in the U.S. should be more evenly distributed among a larger percentage of people, as has been true since Gallup first asked this question in 1984. The percentage agreeing was generally in the 60% range from 1984 through April 2008 and then dropped slightly in the fall of 2008 just before Barack Obama won the presidential election. The current 59% agreement is right at the average of what Gallup has found since 2009.”

    And once conservative thought is further dismantled, I expect the percentage to go higher, because there has been a sector of the population who has been drifting further to the Right. Fox News and other sources since Reagan is understandably the cause.

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  10. Bunsen Burner

    ‘There is nothing in the Constitution that does that.’

    I am not talking about words but practices. The Soviet Union also had wonderful language to describe its laws and institutions. The everyday practices were very different however. Institutions are not value free platonic enterprises but come with the systemic biases prevalent in the culture that creates them. The fact that lawyers cost money, and that a company can threaten to bankrupt me by suing me even if I am in the right are examples of systemic legal bias that privileges those with wealth against those without.

    ‘ That’s the way toward progress, as it has been throughout the history of the US.’

    That’s the most peculiar reading of any Nations history I’ve ever heard. The history of the US involves a lot more than marginal changes to a few laws, and if we consider actual progress then it’s involved everything from civil war to mass protest to violent strike action. Legal changes are usually the last thing involved in fighting for a better world, not the first.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Massimo Post author

    Saphsin,

    Thanks for the empirical evidence. And yet, those numbers don’t translate at the polls. There is lack of political will to change that aspect of the system.

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  12. Massimo Post author

    Bunsen,

    You are talking practices not words. I’m not even sure what that means. Are the laws fair? Then there is no “systemic” discrimination of the type you were talking about. It is a matter of implementing the laws as they are, or to tweak them to make them more effective.

    Again, what, exactly, is your alternative?

    And I never said that the history of the US is “just” one of law tweaking. That’s making a straw man of my position.

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  13. saphsin

    Massimo

    As my teacher Norman Finkelstein once said, the challenge of most of politics is to turn passive support from public opinion into active support.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Massimo Post author

    Sapshin,

    Indeed. But I wonder what those numbers are for, say, legislation aimed at getting money out of politics, anti-corruption laws, etc. If these receive significantly higher support than the issue of equality, my point stands.

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  15. saphsin

    Massimo for his response to Bunsen

    US Elites, including those highest in office, have done so much to break international law, or even the laws of their own country, when intervening in other countries. For instance, Nixon broke both international law & domestic law when he secretly bombed Cambodia without Congressional Approval. No one batted an eye. People did bat an eye from Water Gate, a sinister plot but yet had no real consequences on the lives of anyone (how many thousands died in Cambodia and continue to suffer from the destruction?)

    Why do you think that is? The difference is not the law, but the systemic nature of the institutions and how power works.

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  16. saphsin

    “Indeed. But I wonder what those numbers are for, say, legislation aimed at getting money out of politics, anti-corruption laws, etc. If these receive significantly higher support than the issue of equality, my point stands.”

    I think they’re related but in the eyes of the public, I think many of them would suspect you’re talking about apples and oranges. There are Republican Citizens who support getting money out of politics but don’t support tax increases on the wealthy because of a bad understanding of political economy as a result of Fox News propaganda. That’s why most Trump supporters strongly support expansions of Medicare & Social Security (not that far from Democrats) but simultaneously oppose tax increases (a dramatic difference from Democrats), they’re just that clueless.

    Evidence for support among Trump Supporters here:

    https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publications/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond

    Gaining support for tax increases/wealth redistribution is a separate and necessary proposal you need to get active support from the public I think.

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  17. SocraticGadfly

    Massimo: I think the “at the polls” is bad framing, in part, to riff on the likes of George Lakoff. Dems have done that on some issues. Other issues, with neoliberalism and Third Way on the rise (Obama getting paid more by Goldman Sachs than Hillary Clinton!), the Dems have never really tried. California, with a majority by Dems big enough in both halves of the state legislature to possibly even override a veto by Dem governor Jerry Brown, deliberately stifled in legislature a state-level version of national health care.

    And per my proportional representation link, the “duopoly” doesn’t like to share the sandbox.

    That’s why I’m even more frustrated than EJ or others.

    The reality is that most Americans think our country has the same relative level of income equality than Scandinavia. That idea didn’t come from nowhere.

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  18. Bunsen Burner

    ‘Again, what, exactly, is your alternative?’

    I’ve been trying to keep the current discussion constrained to Frankfurt’s view. Namely, to make the point that economic relations are power relations too, and so logical distinction between the two is meaningless. Discussing social change in general is well out of scope for this conversation and even I suspect this blog as a whole. Maybe if you create a post dedicated to the topic I’ll feel more comfortable with such a broad discussion.

    As for the question of ‘fair’ laws. Well, I’ve already shared the Anatole France quote on that topic.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. brodix

    Bunsen,
    It doesn’t matter how rich you are, the laws of nature still apply. You can iron out all the little bumps in the road, but eventually it leads to one too big to beat.
    Consider that Volcker is credited with curing inflation with higher interest rates, but that also slowed economic activity and the need for money. Inflation didn’t come under control until Reaganomics kicked in.
    That borrowed up under employed capital and spent it in ways that didn’t complete with the private sector, like warfare and welfare, but which the private sector benefited from.
    Capitalism doesn’t want to face the fact that there can be something such as an excess of capital, so the entire system is now focused on generating ever more capital and finding ways to put it to work, ie, invest it. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand the situation is becoming ever more divorced from the larger reality. Just look at the media and the politics.
    They retain power and control precisely because money is not just a commodity, but the social contract, that has been commodified. When it does finally blow up, society is going to be deeply disturbed. The historical record suggests that is when military coups take place. We assume the US is to big for that, but the facts on the ground suggest otherwise. Look who currently controls access to Trump.
    Given that vast numbers of people will be unpleasantly shocked by this, there will be opportunities to deeply reframe significant issues.
    For one thing, capitalism will go the way of communism and trying to construct a viable alternative to both could be worth considering, rather than just swinging between the two poles.

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  20. Daniel Kaufman

    Massimo, don’t feel like you are a lone voice in the wilderness here. I largely agree with you — indeed, I may agree with Frankfurt even more than you do — but I’ve stayed out of the conversation largely because my interest in fantasy fiction has waned significantly, since the genre died in the 1970s.

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  21. ejwinner

    Massimo,
    for whatever reason, we do seem to be writing at cross purposes. I confess that part of my own frustration here is with myself, that I might not be seeing something deeper in Frankfurt’s discussion that might actually be there.

    “So who, exactly, published a book, 300 years ago, arguing for the logical independence of inequality from other morally salient issues, as well as for the the idea that inequality per se is not unethical?” Hobbes, Leviathan (actually some 350 years); he thought that we were all born ‘equal’ in the sense that we are all the same animal, with much the same fears and desires; but that is not a good thing, since it leads to a war of all against all; and part of the function of government is to generate necessary social, political and economic inequalities and adjudicate between them in such a way as to maintain enough satisfaction – and enough control – to maintain peace. It is the adjudication between inequalities that generates a needed equality before the law, which is absolute in its authority, otherwise society declines toward the state of nature.

    But such ideas came about after decades of political discussion during the Reformation but particularly in the aftermath of the English Civil War which led to regicide and the empowerment of a Parliament dominated by a landed gentry rather than an inherited aristocracy.

    The problem here is partly that the arguments I’m referring to occurred largely in politics, rather than philosophy (although strong elements of it can be found in the like of Kant, Mill, Dewey). The problematic relationship between increasing demands for equality from specific groups, and the economics and political configurations needed to accommodate these demands, has been at the center of political activity in England and the US ever since Charles I lost his head.

    “The demand for ‘equality’ has always been rhetorical and political, it has never been ‘logical.’” – What I mean by this can best be illustrated by the following: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal (…).” When Jefferson writes these words, he doesn’t really believe that to be the case in any ontological or even biological sense. He is shutting down counter argument (“self-evident,” ie., not arguable), intending to close off criticism of the Colonies derived from divine design (the source of monarchial absolutism), while staking a claim for the political legitimacy for the Colonies. So it is a rhetorical maneuver for political purposes.

    So the argument by some on the left, “that inequality is, per se, immoral,” has to be read for its rhetorical value in a given context. It doesn’t really matter whether they believe it strongly – political passion is a powerful drug – or not at all. One has to ask whether the demand the argument effectively expresses can be accommodated in a manner that doesn’t disenfranchise others, or whether there is some common ground, or whether the argument is simply best ignored. But it is risky to take a rationalistic high-ground position in relation to it, since the persuasive power is emotional and not rational at all.

    “It is going to be politically impossible, in the US, to eliminate or greatly reduce inequality, because Americans have bought their own cool-aid (they call it their ‘dream’) about wealth. That’s why even the middle class and the poor oppose increasing taxes on the wealthy.
    But it may be possible to rally people around legislation aimed at reducing corruption, the influence of money in politics, and so forth.”

    Absolutely agreed. But I think this case can be made on its own behalf. I’m not sure that undercutting the very ground of the rhetoric of equality – which has had its uses, and will undoubtedly have again – is either necessary or wise.

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  22. synred

    Nixon broke both international law & domestic law when he secretly bombed Cambodia without Congressional Approval. No one batted an eye

    Lot’s of eye’s were batted. There were big demos — largely ignored as usual. It mad the evening news — there was no cable.

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  23. synred

    simultaneously oppose tax increases (a dramatic difference from Democrats), they’re just that clueless

    When Bernie proposes Medicare for all, Hilary via Chelsea claimed it would be a big tax increase. True, but she failed to point out that it would be a net decrease in your health care ‘premiums’

    ‘Liberal’ MSNBC in the form of ‘liberal’ Chris Mathews pushes this same line and never explains that your cost would be lower under single payer. I imagine Fox distortions are worse.

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  24. synred

    ,>deliberately stifled in legislature a state-level version of national health care.

    which we could easily afford if we weren’t supporting low taxes in Mississippi.

    Why should we support ’em? they don’t even appreciate it…and you be sure they will oppose any help with the fire situation.

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  25. ejwinner

    “the arguments I’m referring to occurred largely in politics” – I realized that I should have given at least one example of this, and I do now – The Lincoln-Douglas debates of 1858, wherein Lincoln makes it clear that the question of the “morality” of slavery hinges on the economic principle of “free labor” as integral to the republican ideal of the Constitution, rather than on any question of equality between the races, which he treats as largely irrelevant.

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  26. saphsin

    Daniel Kaufman

    I mean my difference with Massimo on this is more about broader politics and certain conceptual nuances. When it comes to actual substantive policies and citizen activism, which is what really matters in ongoing politics, we’re mostly aligned I think in the current political landscape.

    Massimo, I’ll add one more thing about advocating abolishing extreme wealth inequality. Bernie Sanders is doing a good job convincing the public about it, while tying it together for the reasons why we all lack healthcare and why there’s so much poverty and so on. He’s giving reasons why wealth inequality is bad by tying it into individual experience AND the larger political sense. Perhaps it’s the former that motivates people to get off their couches from political indifference to listen to him, but I think they definitely care about the latter too. There’s a way to articulate a political message that involves different concepts tied together without being a binary of shifting from one focus to another.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. saphsin

    synred

    I meant Democrats as in the citizens, not the elites. I was tying it into that public opinion study I posted.

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  28. couvent2104

    No, it isn’t. There is nothing in the Constitution that does that.

    Unless the supreme court misunderstood it, the American constitution gives corporations the same free-speech rights as ordinary people to fund advertising in favor or against a political candidate.

    I don’t doubt Frankfurt would argue that there is no logical link between this corporation-funded advertising and the decisions ordinary people make when they vote.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Robin Herbert

    As I said earlier, respect and $3.90 gets you a cup of coffee. There were plenty of slave owners who claimed to respect their slaves. Respect is nice, but it is a bit of a vague, non-committal thing to offer people.

    Also, how could there be equality of rights if there was inequality of opportunity. If a group have barriers to achievement with respect to another group that is not related to ability then how could you say they have the same rights?

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